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Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

OP posts:
lljkk · 05/08/2018 17:37

How can EU control its borders unless NI is in the SM?

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 17:38

And we all know how reliable economic forecasts are.

Generally more reliable than anything Dave down the pub says.

Unless of course maybe because the UK will be an even better place to do business after Brexit.

You literally edited my post and answered the point you wanted me to be making rather than the point I actually made. A business which needs to be based within the single market and has chosen to base itself in the UK will necessarily need to find a new base in a country which is in the single market after the UK leaves the single market. The clue is in the words that you deleted.

Except of course no one will actually build a hard border, but lets ignore the details.

A hard border will be a legal requirement if the UK leaves the single market and customs union. Not having internal borders (within the EU) means that there must necessarily be an external border (around the EU). How else can they stop chlorinated chickens coming into the EU via Northern Ireland? It’s also a requirement of the WTO rules that all the Brexiters think we can just “fall back on”.

There are a lot more MPs in parliament than just the extreme right.

If only they would remove their heads from their own sphincters and “take back control” from those who seek to destroy our country.

Happy to bet £100 that will never happen

It is literally the unavoidable consequence of us leaving the EU and the Open Skies Agreement with nothing ready to replace it. Oh and I wouldn’t take your £100 off you anyway if this actually happens. Firstly because you’ll be struggling enough, and secondly because it will be worth fuck all to me anyway.

Or perhaps they either dont care or actually want it.

The only people who don’t care or actually want it are people like Jacob Rees Mogg who will be quids in and people like you who have no comprehension of how much this will fuck the country up, and are still chanting “Project Fear!” like a bunch of brainwashed zombies.

Says everyone on the left ever. And reverse that when its a Labour government.

I’m not “on the left”. I’ve never voted Labour. I wish that someone would knock Jeremy Corbyn off his bike so Labour would get their act together and actually oppose this.

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 17:39

fangirl, stop talking shite.

No one wants a hard border but we cannot trade on WTO or leave the SM/CU without one.

What part of that do you not understand?

frumpety · 05/08/2018 17:42

Deadfangirl that is excellent news , is that because we are staying in the SM/CU ?

Thesearepearls · 05/08/2018 17:43

There will be a hard Brexit. Business is preparing itself for this. Let's just forget the hand-wringing and stuff. We need to get on with it.

There will be a recession post-Brexit. When we are in recession we need to do the most that we can to persuade overseas manufacturers that have located in the UK to stay to preserve jobs.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 17:43

Project reality is that we're going to stay in SM/CU to avoid the border problem.

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 17:49

I actually wouldn’t put it past Theresa May to do a “deal” where we leave the single market and lose the benefits of being in it, but agree to carry on respecting the rules of it so there doesn’t have to be a hard border. She’d then try to sell it to the electorate as win-win when it’s actually lose-lose.

Confused
OP posts:
Rosstac · 05/08/2018 17:56

Bearbehind Any actual evidence for that statement? I am sure TM and the Tory’s don’t want to be out of office for a couple of decades and we can welcome back NF and UKIP and it will all start again

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 17:58

That can only happen if we effectively stay in the SM tokoyo

It is what's going to happen though.

It's going to be dressed up for the benefit of Leavers but let's face it, an awful lot of them thought we'd left the day after the referendum

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 18:01

I am sure TM and the Tory’s don’t want to be out of office for a couple of decades and we can welcome back NF and UKIP and it will all start again

That would be a great point if there was actually any kind of majority for leaving the single market and customs union and bankrupting the country in the process but there isn’t.

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 18:01

Loads of evidence rosstac. The most basic of which is

a) the EU is not going to allow the UK FOM of goods without FOM of people. Given FOM of people is a fudge anyway, goods are going to take priority and we'll stay in SM/CU

b) TM, however arrogant, is not going to pull the trigger on no deal and be responsible for the economic suicide of this country.

Rosstac · 05/08/2018 18:13

Bearbehind so as usual, no evidence then, just something you want, don’t worry about what the majority want.
What do you mean FOM a fudge tell that to the people that have lost jobs, housing etc to FOM, yes I know in your little world this does not happen because you’ve haven’t read about it in the Guardian, but let me assure you people at the lower end have well and truly been affected by FOM.

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 18:15

And those people will well and truly not see any improvement if there is a hard Brexit.

The Tories are going to be out of power for a long long time either way after all the mess they have caused.

OP posts:
Rosstac · 05/08/2018 18:16

LoveInTokyo I think you will find there was a majority for leaving the SM/CU as the Pm DC said a vote to leave is a vote to leave the SM/CU,
I think that’s pretty obvious even to you

Rosstac · 05/08/2018 18:19

LoveInTokyo I honestly think you don’t know a lot about people at the lower end, living rented houses, min wage job on HB and WTC tell me how much worse is it going to get for them, it will hit the middle class more

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 18:19

What evidence do you want me to provide rosstac?

Barrier has repeatedly rejected the UK retaining any of the 4 freedoms individually.

I could provide endless links if you are seriously still thinking that isn't true.

Are you honestly saying he's just bluffing?

As for FOM being a fudge, we always could have controlled it more tightly, we just couldn't be arsed.

We will still have plenty of immigration from the EU in the future (if they want to come here) as we need them.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 18:22

The Tories are going to be out of power for a long long time either way after all the mess they have caused

^^ This

They are now stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Hard Brexit and the very vast majority of the country feel the pain for generations to come.

BINO and only the Leavers who haven't actually realised we didn't leave the day after the referendum will be pissed off.

Bearing in mind the latter only started at 26% of the country at best.

No brainer really.

Rosstac · 05/08/2018 18:24

Bearbehind, it will be him then that sends the UK and EU into a recession. I hope he can sleep at night, Please tell me APART FROM THE 3MONTH RULE, how could we have controlled EU immigration.
I’ve said time and time again what is wrong with a visa based job system?

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 18:24

David Cameron who washed his hands of the whole sorry business the day after the referendum said that in response to Boris Johnson who was going round telling everyone that we would be able to end FOM but still have full access to the single market (the have cake and eat it "option", which was never an actual option but just something people said to get your vote).

Unfortunately too many people believed Boris.

If the ballot paper had said "remain in the EU" or "leave the EU, end FOM and lose all the current benefits we have now" and the second option had won, you might have a point.

But it didn't, so you are merely assuming that the other 17,399,999 have he same appetite for destruction as you do speculating.

OP posts:
Helmetbymidnight · 05/08/2018 18:25

I honestly think you don’t know a lot about people at the lower end, living rented houses, min wage job on HB and WTC tell me how much worse is it going to get for them, it will hit the middle class more

Who do you think will get hit most by rising foodprices, the collapse of the NHS and companies closing down?
I'll give you a clue. It's poor people.

The fact that after 2 years people are still trying to argue such nonsense is staggering.

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 18:27

I honestly think you don’t know a lot about people at the lower end, living rented houses, min wage job on HB and WTC tell me how much worse is it going to get for them, it will hit the middle class more

No, because people who currently have no money in the bank will be unable to afford food and heating, whereas the "middle classes" with money stashed away for a rainy day will be OK for much longer.

Obviously.

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Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 18:27

it will be him then that sends the UK and EU into a recession. I hope he can sleep at night

The really sad thing is, you honestly believe that 🤔

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 18:29

it will be him then that sends the UK and EU into a recession. I hope he can sleep at night

No, it will be the people who campaigned for, voted for and implemented Brexit who send the UK into a recession.

(The EU will be much less affected.)

OP posts:
Rosstac · 05/08/2018 18:31

It will be the middle classes who will be losing their jobs and their houses, the higher up your are the more you have to fall,

prettybird · 05/08/2018 18:33

, Please tell me APART FROM THE 3MONTH RULE, how could we have controlled EU immigration.

Confused

So you want an answer about how to control EU immigration, yet explicitly exclude the actual answer Confused

Riiiiiggghhht Hmm