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Brexit

An open letter to leavers

999 replies

LoveInTokyo · 02/08/2018 12:54

Dear Leavers

I’m sorry that David Cameron offered us a referendum and promised to respect the outcome, whatever it was.

Unfortunately, he was fucking with you.

He promised that referendum when he didn’t think he stood a cat’s chance in hell of getting a majority, and never thought he’d actually have to deliver on it. When he got his surprise majority, he made a big show of going to Brussels and pretending to negotiate with the EU to get us a “better deal”. Unfortunately, he already knew perfectly well that the UK already had a better deal than any other country in the EU, and that they were not going to bend over backwards to get us to stay. So he made a big show of negotiating and then tried to pretend that he had done something meaningful. He then went through the motions of holding a referendum, half-heartedly campaigning to remain. He did absolutely no contingency planning, partly because he never believed that leave would actually win, and partly because he already knew that he had no intention of staying to deal with the fallout if they did. That’s why he resigned the day after the referendum and waltzed off, whistling a merry tune.

He played a high risk game of poker with our money, and lost.

I understand that many of you feel defensive about your decision and dislike being labelled “thick” by angry remainers. As a remainer myself, I feel saddened and frustrated that none of you seem able to articulate any benefits that will actually come out of Brexit. But at this stage, I would quite happily accept that there will be no benefits, and settle for damage limitation. Unfortunately none of you seem able to explain how we limit the damage either.

We cannot leave the single market and customs union without there being a hard border in Ireland, which will put people’s lives at risk. We cannot leave the single market and customs union without severely damaging most sectors of the economy, which would cause untold hardship for millions of people living in the UK. I realise that remaining in the single market and customs union would make leaving the EU pointless, but it is the only way to limit the damage.

The government has made almost no progress towards getting a workable deal in place, and time is running out. We don’t have the infrastructure in place to ensure that supply chains of essential food and medicine will not be disrupted after Brexit day. We don’t have a plan to ensure that planes will still be able to take off and land, or that satnav will still work. We do not have any trade deals lined up. We simply do not have time to do any of these things.

Dear leavers, you do not have solutions to any of these problems, and more importantly, neither do Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Andrea Leadsom, Daniel Hannan, Jeremy Corbyn, Kate Hoey or any of the people who claim to think Brexit is the right choice for the UK.

A no-deal Brexit is unthinkable. It is not an option.

I realise that many of you will feel betrayed if we do not get the kind of Brexit you want. But to be honest, you’re going to feel betrayed even if you do get the kind of Brexit you want, because it will be unimaginably shit. This is not "project fear", it is "project reality".

The government has a duty to act in the best interests of the country as a whole. It’s not good enough to lay the blame at David Cameron’s door and say he held the referendum so we have to respect the vote. David Cameron has been out of office for two years. It is now plainer than ever that leaving the EU is a terrible idea, and there is still time to put the brakes on and not go through with it. If the government goes through with this when they could put a stop to it, they cannot continue to blame David Cameron and claim that their hands were tied. They are not.

It is time for Theresa May to do the decent thing and say, “I’m sorry, I know it’s what the people voted for, but it simply can’t be done without causing a totally unacceptable amount of harm to the country. And I have a duty of care towards everyone, not just the 51.8% who voted leave.”

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MrHoolieswaistcoat · 05/08/2018 15:55

Why is it that Leavers are the ones telling people to piss off?
You won, remember? I have never seen such a bunch of sore winners.

mummabearfoyrbabybears · 05/08/2018 16:03

Unnecessary Please don't quote 'sick man of Europe' crap. Try to also consider that we were on the up economics wise. No one really relates that we were still clawing our way out of a world war that cost us billions. We were paying Germany and Poland and countless other countries millions to repair their cities (which didn't stop until the '90s). When we joined the EU yes things on paper got better because Germany and other EU countries said we didn't need to pay them so much. Our trades at that time (coal, steel) were booming without the EU. But yes on paper the EU made us look much more successful.

TheElementsSong · 05/08/2018 16:09

We were paying Germany and Poland and countless other countries millions to repair their cities (which didn't stop until the '90s).

Really? Who's "we"?

Oh, just by the way, the UK was the largest recipient of Marshall Aid after the war.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 16:14

We were fine before the EU and we will be fine afterwards.

We weren't fine before, we were the "sick man of Europe" and wanted to join for over a decade, but even if it were true that we were fine before, it doesn't necessarily follow that we will be fine afterwards. The world has moved on.

I swear some people think they voted to turn back time.

Although, to be fair, turning back time is no more impossible than what they seem to want now.

And no, you are not entitled to a reasoned, "intelligent" reponse since the lecture you delivered, without invitation, was neither of those things.

The fact that so many leavers seem to think we need their permission to speak is one of the most depressing and frightening things about this brave new broken Brexit Britain.

Perhaps you should address your open letter to 'Dave' after all he gave the people the choice.

Dave doesn't give a shit, he's too busy writing his memoirs from his £25,000 artisan shepherd hut in the Cotswolds.

We are not all in this together.

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Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 16:17

JRM reckons it will be another 5 decades before we see any benefits
What remoaner lies, he said nothing of the sort.

He actually said, “The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.” Which has a totally different meaning.

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 16:21

Stop trying to make fetch "remoaner lies" happen. It's not going to happen.

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LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 16:27

Jacob Rees Mogg basically warned people not to be too impatient to see any benefits from Brexit because it could take as long as 50 years.

Jacob Rees Mogg is 49 years old. If he'd plucked a different random number out of the air, say, 25 years, or even 40, he would in all likelihood still be around and angry people could say to him, "We waited patiently and never saw any benefits like you promised!"

50 years is just long enough away to ensure that even he, with the best healthcare money can buy, will be dead and answerable to no one by the time it's clear that the "benefits" of Brexit will never materialise.

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Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 16:34

mummabearfoyrbabybears you say we were "We were paying Germany and Poland and countless other countries millions to repair their cities (which didn't stop until the '90s)".

Really? I know we cancelled German depts in 1953 but I've never heard about actually giving them money. Also, Poland as part of the Warsaw Pact - no way would they get any British money.

Do you mean Marshal Aid as provide by the USA?

The cancelled dept included some money from the Treaty of Versailles so cancelling that was only reasonable.

This is the type of anti EU myth that keeps coming up on these boards. It's scary what people believe.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 16:45

Some people did have their lives damaged forever under Thatcher (as an example) so it wasn't just "put up with it until the next election then it will be fine again." Some of the policies carried out under certain governments have effected people's lives dramatically over the decades where sometimes they don't recover or life never goes back to how it was before. Those people may not have voted for that government in power at the time but had their lives changed as a result.

So as I said before, in a democracy you will never please 100% of the voters all at the same time.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 16:49

Op at the moment it's all speculation though about what will or will not happen after Brexit. You don't know it will be awful because you don't have a crystal ball to look into the future.

People don't know their children/grandchildren's lives will be "damaged forever " how very dramatic. It's all speculation.

I suspect their are unfortunately people out there who are willing for it to be a disaster so they can say "I told you so.." Hmm

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 16:52

LikeIDo1 there are several issues that make a referendum different to a GE.

The referendum was advisory so it could be set aside easily. People didn't (don't) know this but it is true.

If an MP committed the electoral offences the leave campaign did there would be a by election. There absolutely would be a re run.

We didn't know what a vote for leave meant - a referendum on the final decision would clarify this.

You never please all the electorate that is correct but there are a number of significant issues that need to be addressed before making a decision as important a long lasting as this.

derxa · 05/08/2018 16:55

We are not all in this together No we're not. You said you live in France.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 17:06

How many governments are elected in on promises in their manifesto but those policies never get delivered! It's all the same!

lljkk · 05/08/2018 17:07

The Blame Game is extremely unhelpful.

Who has the leverage to turn this situation around? I'm beginning to wonder if it's the likes of Pete North or Richard North. Fervent Leavers who actually see that the price isn't worth paying & might just have the social capital within the Leave movement to stop the crazy freight train.

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 17:07

Op at the moment it's all speculation though about what will or will not happen after Brexit. You don't know it will be awful because you don't have a crystal ball to look into the future.

Maybe not, but we do know several things.

  1. Any kind of Brexit will damage our economy (according to all the economic forecasts, including the government's own) and the harder the Brexit the worse the damage will be.
  1. Businesses which have based themselves in the UK as the English speaking capital of the single market will have no reason to stay.
  1. Hard Brexit will fuck up Northern Ireland because there will have to be a hard border.
  1. Soft Brexit is not acceptable to the extreme right wing of the Tory party who see Brexit as an opportunity to have a bonfire of regulations (mostly pesky things like workers' rights and health and safety which give the little people rights and protections) and to asset strip the UK for their own benefit.
  1. A no deal Brexit means that planes won't be able to take off and land for an undefined period of time and supply chains of essential food and medicine are likely to be disrupted. Plans are being made to stockpile essential supplies but there are various reasons why this may be difficult or even impossible. We also don't have the necessary infrastructure to properly handle customs checks after Brexit day and it isn't being built.
  1. We are now being told that no deal is more likely than a deal. The only reason this news isn't causing people to riot in the streets is because 99% of them don't actually understand what that means.
  1. The government is totally incompetent and ill-equipped to handle even an orderly Brexit, let alone the chaotic mess we are likely to have.

Nothing, literally nothing that has happened in the last two years gives me any hope that this will not be an utter disaster.

It is difficult to see how it could have gone worse so far.

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Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 17:08

How many governments are elected in on promises in their manifesto but those policies never get delivered! It's all the same!

It's not the same at all. In a GE you can voted them out in 5 years max if you don't like it.

2 years on we're still pissing around trying to think of how it can even possibly work in practice, let alone be a sucess.

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 17:11

No we're not. You said you live in France.

I am probably more sheltered from the economic fallout than people who are stuck in the UK, but I still have no answers to questions such as whether I will be able to work or get a mortgage here after Brexit or whether my professional qualifications or driving licence will still be accepted as valid.

The impact for me will be different to the impact for you. But there will still be an impact.

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Helmetbymidnight · 05/08/2018 17:13

"We were paying Germany and Poland and countless other countries millions to repair their cities (which didn't stop until the '90s).

Where did you get this from? I have never heard of it. It’s not another one of those made-up bits of history so loved by brexiteers is it?

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 17:14

LikeIDo1 again we suffer from public misunderstanding. A manifesto is not a set of promises it is a statement of ideals - this is what we would like to do. Some elements within manifestos become 'pledges'.

When a government takes power they have to deal with the reality of the situation so may not be able to adhere to all their manifesto. This doesn't make them liars it means they are working in the real world.

Brexit is a very specific issue, TM has tried very hard to deliver a safe Brexit (I'm being kind) she has failed. Now faced with a different reality to what was expected the decision either needs to taken by a brave parliament or put to the electorate as a more specific referendum question.

This is entirely legal and democratic - just because many people don't know that doesn't make it less true.

LikeIDo1 · 05/08/2018 17:14

Not necessarily. Both Thatcher and Blair were in power for a decade or more by which time the damage to some people was being done. Imagine if you were anti them and you voted against them but the majority kept voting them in.

Moussemoose · 05/08/2018 17:18

Helmetbymidnight exactly another made up bit of history. A poster comes along drops a total load of bollocks based on an Express story (I googled to check) and then disappears.

I wonder if he or she will come back and read the links or check the facts or just continue in this mistaken belief. Very depressing.

LoveInTokyo · 05/08/2018 17:22

On the plus side, they’ll have loads of relevant experience for applying for a job at the Ministry of Truth once the UK is rebranded “Air Strip One”.

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Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 17:23

1. Any kind of Brexit will damage our economy (according to all the economic forecasts... And we all know how reliable economic forecasts are.

2. Businesses ... will have no reason to stay. Unless of course maybe because the UK will be an even better place to do business after Brexit.

3. Hard Brexit will fuck up Northern Ireland because there will have to be a hard border. Except of course no one will actually build a hard border, but lets ignore the details.

4. Soft Brexit is not acceptable to the extreme right wing of the Tory party... There are a lot more MPs in parliament than just the extreme right.

5. A no deal Brexit means that planes won't be able to take off and land... Happy to bet £100 that will never happen Grin

6. ...The only reason this news isn't causing people to riot in the streets is because 99% of them don't actually understand what that means... Or perhaps they either dont care or actually want it.

7. The government is totally incompetent... Says everyone on the left ever. And reverse that when its a Labour government.

Project Fear is literally alive and well.

Bearbehind · 05/08/2018 17:25

fangirl do you a single point of reference for even one of your comments above?

It's all just clap trap based on what you 'hope'

Walkingdeadfangirl · 05/08/2018 17:32

Bearbehind Its only hard core remainers that are agitating there has to be a hard border in N.Ireland.
The EU, the UK, NI and ROI have all said they wont be doing it. That's not my opinion that's reality. If you disagree then why dont you explain who will be building this supposed 'hard border'.

Stop spouting Project Fear propaganda.

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