OK, lets put it this way, what do we want done?

[Clairetree1]

Its all going so badly and everyone is worried, but what can be done?

Do we want another referendum and the whole Brexit thing aborted? Do we want another leader doing something different? Do we think Teresa May is doing everything that can be done?

I say "do we think" but to be honest, I don't think anything either way of Teresa May, I don't know what to think.

I don't know what could make things better at this stage

@Rosstac

I think you've got it yes. If we leave the EU, you're chopping off your right foot.

But your other problems - bad heart, high cholesterol - remain.

So how does chopping off your foot help your bad heart and cholesterol?

We won't have food shortages for a start @Rosstac . Is that what you are looking forward to.

I mean "we wouldn't have" if we were staying in.

Rosstac you do know the credit crunch wasn't the fault of the last Labour government don't you?

Even if you want to criticise how it was handled by Labour the crisis itself was an international crisis. The money went because of lax international regulation and US banks lending and spending inappropriately.

Look at Tuesday 15:14 there is a nice chart that says exactly why the EU is a good thing. I read it and found it interesting how can you have forgotten it already. I believe there are some other posts around that one listing the benefits of the EU.

You ask for the benefits and we have already given them to you repeatedly.

Still none of you have said what will change if we stay in the EU apart from it will be less shit than leaving

You have to be taking the piss now rosstac

Brexit was never billed as solving all the problems you listed.

Yes there was some claims about the NHS etc but they have been thoroughly debunked.

How can this have not sunk in with you yet?

How can you not understand that if you add the problems we know Brexit will create to your list, things will be worse not better?

No one is even pretending Brexit will be beneficial anymore- it's all about limiting the damage now.

How can you not see that this damage is going to make things worse?

I think she/he/they is a troll. Surely nobody could be that obtuse?

@golondrina

Yes. I think so too. We are all spending a lot of effort on it.

Time to move on.

Sadly I don't think she / he is a troll at all.

I think that's the level of stupity we are up against here.

I think lurkers may be unsure of questions and don't want to seem stupid by asking. By answering Rosstac's questions and responding to points they make lurkers could well be finding information out.

They may also be seeing how shit the case for Brexit is.

@BearBehind

Don't fight what you can't win. Move on. Not worth the energy.

Oh believe me, I'm giving up sacre

I'm just disgusted that people like that have sent this country down the swanned based on such ill-informed and fucking stupid thought processes.

I think she/he/they are a troll. Surely nobody could be that obtuse?

Its pride, i ve a friend who is exactly the same, acknowledges all the downsides of Brexit, even admits the UK's probs are not the EU's fault BUT still says her vote was the correct one.
She isn't stupid at all, has a degree in Economics no less!

But Rosstac is correct in that DC didnt have to act on the vote or even resign, May could at any time admitted it was a harmful decision and aborted.

The blame (if that is the correct way to word for it?) is not with leave voters, its with a Government intent on carrying out brexit and an opposition that wants pretty much the same thing too.

The blame (if that is the correct way to word for it?) is not with leave voters, its with a Government intent on carrying out brexit and an opposition that wants pretty much the same thing too.

I totally disagree.

If those Leavers who were duped into thinking Brexit would benefit them actually stood up now and questioned the situation, things would change.

The very fact they are still harping on about things changing for the better after a edit is why this shit show still has traction.

Agreed, bear. Cameron and the current Tory 'government' have, of course, a huge amount to answer for - and I hope it destroys the Tories for a generation or two - but fundamentally it's the idiots who believed the bullshit on that bus that make me alternate between despair and fury.

I don't know if I will ever forgive Leavers who are so pigheaded that they refuse to acknowledge they may have been duped, even in the face of so much evidence.

But then again, I guess that's what this bunch of venal, grasping bastards in govt want - divide and conquer, set the plebs against up against one another and reap the rewards of the chaos. Textbook stuff.

Such an awful, awful mess. And, for what?

You'd better not suggest that someone is obtuse golondrina - you might be accused of making fun of them and showing off your education (Not that I'm saying rosstac would do that, but someone did that on another thread )

I think rosstac is a classic exemplar of the "Backlash Effect": the more that you prove to them that their belief is based on a falsehood, the stronger and more determinedly they will cling to that mistaken belief.

If the EU did what Rosstac wanted and stepped in to take action where the current Westminster Government won't, I would expect a mega tantrum about the EU interfering. They could not win.

I fully agree with all those who say that the Leave voters can't pass the buck to the Government. They can get stuck in and start taking the Government to account, instead of blaming everyone else.

It does take some courage to say "I was wrong."

People who voted leave are to blame for this. I might add Cameron to the mix but the voters are the ones to blame. The blame game will go on quite a long time before I add anyone else.

We live in a representative democracy, i didnt want this vote and apparently, having a vote on EU membership didnt figure in voter demands, certainly not a top 10 issue, despite people like Farage and his rebel rousing speeches, its why he never got elected.

You really cannot blame ill educated (and i include almost ALL of us in that statement) folk, who the heck knew the vagaries of the SM? CU ? the NI border or the role of the ECJ in soooo many eu bodies?

The first priority of the Government is the protection of the state and its people, so of course May is to blame, she is the one who can alter the course we are on and she is the one who has decided not too.

To back up my view, 70% of Labour supporters do not want Brexit, yet JC is carrying on regardless and it wouldn't matter if 70% of the UK population changed their minds either, so long as the Tory party want Brexit, that i'm afraid is what we will get.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/09/revealed-detail-of-exclusive-russian-deal-offered-to-arron-banks-in-brexit-run-up

Maybe you could add Arron Banks and Putin to your list of people to blame. Not sure why the Russians want us out of Europe, it will give the US a good foothold on the continent. Who has lots of money, would benefit from us being out of Europe, is capable of laundering money through Russia.

Propaganda works, a lot was used during the referendum. It was a dirty fight with dirty money.

You really cannot blame ill educated (and i include almost ALL of us in that statement) folk, who the heck knew the vagaries of the SM? CU ? the NI border or the role of the ECJ in soooo many eu bodies?

There's no point in talking about why people voted as they did; that was 2 years ago.

There's much more information out there now and there's absolutely no excuse for those who still refuse to acknowledge that whilst still insisting leaving the EU will solve all our problems.

Rosstac I had a little look on rightmove at your area , you get a lot more for your money there than you do in mine , not that I have any ! There seems to be quite a lot of newly built HMO's for sale, so someone is making money from all those pesky immigrants , which is strange because you have said they get social housing ?

What I don't understand is the whole 'we need to work together to make it a success ' malarkey ? I have a job already , am I supposed to give it up and do something else ? I am happy to have a go at negotiating international free trade agreements in my spare time if it helps, I mean how hard can it be ?

@frumpety

I think this thread should move on from this Rosstac individual who may well be a troll. There's no breaking through - waste of time.

Well that seemed to kill the thread !

Can anyone think where I might have put roof bar keys for safe keeping before I admit to DH I have lost them for a second year running

P.S still think Brexit is Baaaad