Any remainers here who don't think civilisation is about to collapse?

[Bloodylovepotatoes]

Die hard remainer here. Was gutted with referendum result, but I think it'll probably be a bit crap after for a while, then it'll level out and basically be fine. Don't think society will collapse.

Apparently this is a very unpopular opinion and either I should be a defiant leaver saying all will be wonderful and we'll have our sovereignty back and our blue passports and all those nasty foreigners will be gone, or I should be boarding up all my doors and windows and preparing myself for economic collapse and societal disintegration?

Is there no one like me?! No middle ground????

That is quite critical coming from the government mouthpiece BBC.

I certainly don't think it has no downside, I just don't think it will be quite as horrific as is often made out on here.

I sincerely hope you're right. But it wouldn't take a huge economic shock, let alone a fundamental change such as Brexit, to plunge a not-insignificant percentage of the population into an existence which might rightly be described as horrific. Hundreds of thousands of avoidable deaths from welfare cuts already, and UC not yet fully rolled out. Many more people will be in need of a safety net which will have been shredded. I could go on about the NHS and WTO rules on state subsidy. As a wise man once said of the Tory political agenda "I warn you not to be ordinary, I warn you not to be young, I warn you not to fall ill, and I warn you not to grow old". Too late now.

Sorry - guilt trip not gonna work. I've read the reports, I understand the problems with customs, I saw the aldy from Arla foods say formual milk would become an 'occasional luxury' I've seen the govt decision to start stockpiling.

Telling the truth of what crash out means isn't scaremongering. Sometimes the truth is scary. It is a far far better thing to hear it now, whilst supply lines are in place and we can still change our minds than it is to stay quiet and wait for the shit to hit the fan.

Children are already living in food poverty. Carsh out brexit - or any form of brexit which causes a 22% increase in food prices as posted upthread will tip them over the edge. Malnutrition and the diseases associated with that will increase.

It is not 'vile' to mention the unpalatable truths about the consequences of a decision we have made. A decision we still have time to reverse.

Pretzel. You may have missed the post that I have already written to my MP. I assuming he will be writing back at some point.
As much as I would love to steer the team to a soft brexit it isn’t my remit to do so (or yours)
So that leaves us with the rallies. I marched with well over a million others against the Iraq war ( you had to be there to appreciate the scale) and it changed absolutely nothing. We still went to war.

I don’t think mine or any other child will starve!

It was a good attempt op, but the die Hardaker are back. All civility will evaporate on cue

www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/06/29/the-most-ludicrous-brexit-claim-yet-britain-will-starve/

Icantreachthepretzels

Why crash onto this thread, which is clearly the opposite of the thread you want?

Is it because you feel you are superior than posters with a better outlook and they need education, and to be educated until they agree?

Well DH has been made redundant as a direct result of Brexit - he worked as a support worker in the city & his department/division have moved to the EU. Hopefully he'll get something else but at the moment we're living off my income & his redundancy. As I'm a T1D and he has asthma we're very worried about medicines. Though as May is also T1D, you'd hope she'd be aware of that. We have been talking about me giving up work & spending the rest of the time before brexit doing a grand tour of Europe just in case it all goes pear shaped!

Do you feel we have the "wrong" opinion?

Sorry to hear that Luscious

Icantreachthepretzels You are just too militant for my tastes, not all of us want to crash around fighting for everything.

You are becoming increasingly more irritated/and more threatening because we are not taking the same hardline as you. We don't all sing from the same hymn sheet simply because we cast the same vote. There are leavers that are our friends and family, they are some weird evil cult group that need to be slayed at any cost. You are being disrespectful to them and to other remainers by creating such hostility.

Op has managed a wonderful thing of creating a gentle thread for those that agree that the world will not end as we know it.

You can carry on shouting from the sidelines if you wish or you can influence debate with some coherent posts.

they are NOT some evil cult

Thanks potatoes, it's a bummer and a bit of hindsight would be wonderful!

A grand tour sounds fun! I would go and enjoy the time between jobs. Good luck I am sure your oh will find a good job. London is teeming with jobs at the moment thank goodness, and long may it continue.

I do not think that Civilisation will collapse.
I am pretty certain that if there is anything except BINO, those who voted for it will feel the most economic pain.

The 16m would all settle for the same thing
The 17m cannot agree among themselves what they want
Logically the government should do what makes the most people satisfied
which is to cancel Article 50
as then half of those who voted and many who were too young to vote will be happy.

It may be catastrophic, it may just be very bad, but we all know it will not be good, so why on earth should we allow it to happen?

They are not going to cancel article 50.

Why do people believe that people who voted leave will riot, overwhelm the police, and cause a civil war if we don't have a hard Brexit? I am genuinely puzzled. Where is the evidence for that?

But I don't want to live in a society where people rely on food banks, where the NHS has no staff, where casual racism is acceptable, where we have no H&S legislation

This is what I said in relation to civilisation- several posters picked up on the point about casual racism. I know it already exists and people rely on food banks and the NHS is struggling for staff.

My point was I set my standards for civilisation higher than 'no riots'.

Lots of basic standards go before civilisation ends but I want to improve society not get by. I don't want to leave a society that is worse off in crucial ways for my children and grandchildren.

I grew up with casual racism and I had hoped the attitude towards racism was improving. I was a naive fool, the lid has been taken off the box and it is acceptable again.

So again civilisation won't end but we may end up living in a materially worse society in terms of equality, fairness and wealth for all. I think this is a bad thing.

If we are going to make some headway we at least need to be plausible. Cancelling article 50 is just a complete non starter. As is the idea that they will ignore the 17m and just focus on us and our views. It is all absolute pie in the sky pal, really very wishful thinking.

I do think we can work towards the softest of brexits. I don't think brexit is going to be cancelled, not now not ever. We may get another ref in 15 years time to go back in though.

In no way am I the first or only dissenter on this thread. In no way am I the only person who has pointed out what the disasters might be. In no way am I poster that has called someone else 'vile' or tried to tell other posters to get off the thread.

I have simply pointed out this doesn't have to happen, yes we can fight it and yes - bad things will happen in the event of a hard or no deal brexit. I imagine most people are aware that food poverty is a real thing and that increasing numbers of people are relying on food banks. Pointing out that in the event of shortages and price hikes these people will really struggle - and may become ill - isn't scaremongering or being aggressive. It is remembering that there are already very vulnerable people in the country - and that their situation is going to become a lot more precarious in the event of the brexit we are currently headed for.

That is just one of the many downsides of brexit.

Why do people believe that people who voted leave will riot, overwhelm the police, and cause a civil war if we don't have a hard Brexit

I don't think ANYONE is suggesting that there will be riots unless there is a hard brexit.
I think it is generally understood that it could well happen if there is a no exit at all. Inevitable one might say. If you overthrow a vote and dismiss it, then the support for power structures evaporates on both sides ( not just leavers I may add) so what do you end up with?

A complete loss of confidence, a breakdown in the power structures as people take the power into their own hands, the complete destruction of democracy. I would not want to be responsible for that, so I support the vote regardless of whether I agree with it or not, and clearly I do not agree we should leave, but still the rules of democracy and law apply and must at all costs.

Icantreachthepretzels I agree. Like a lot of people - you I imagine - I'll be fine.

My concern is for the vulnerable, perhaps the people who voted leave out of desperation. If we do nothing because civilisation won't end, because our lives will be ok, because we don't want to make a fuss if we do nothing does that not make us in some way responsible for the mess?

Doing nothing and not making a fuss does not absolve you of blame if the vulnerable in society suffer.

As is the idea that they will ignore the 17m and just focus on us and our views
So 16m and growing will be ignored to pander to the whim of 17m who cannot agree among themselves

Putin must be rubbing his hands with glee about that money his crony lent to Arron Banks