To ask if those panicking about Brexit realise they've been had?

[Growingboys]

Honestly, it's pathetic.

This is Project Fear mark 2, spin designed to stop Brexit happening. Politicians and wonks hope that if they spread enough fear around, which is what all these ridiculous 'prepping' threads are, they will stop us leaving the EU.

Everybody needs to calm the fuck down, stop digging their underground food stores/adding some more tins to the Ocado order, and realise this is spin, pure and simple. The world will continue to turn, and food will continue to be on supermarket shelves, regardless of what happens with Brexit.

I am very sad at the lack of sense and backbone so many people are showing here, regardless of views on Brexit.

I'm off to have a gin and put my feet up. I might even eat something from my freezer tonight rather than save it for armageddon #dicingwithdeath

Interesting in that you make no specific links to the EU yourself.

Why should I, it wasn't me who acknowledged neoliberalism and globalisation is a problem and still try and say the EU is not somewhat responsible.

I'm a remainer, full on big business neoliberal yet understand the faults with winners and losers. What I am not pretending is that the situation of brexit is nothing to do with the EU and solely a UK government issue. And certainly not just a muh evil tories situation

Hmmmm 'neoliberalism' are you using the term as it was used in the middle of the last century? If you are then yes the EU is neoliberal.

Hmmmmm

You playing semantics does not dispute the fact that the EU are neoliberal in the common sense that the left have an issue with.

Resorting to semantics is scraping the barrel no?

So neoliberal in the modern US capitalism way not traditional European neoliberal?

Well if you didn't make any points about EU involvement I didn't sweep aside any critical thinking about it did I?

As someone who has studied political science it isn't semantics to me. There is a big difference between the neoliberalism mid 20th century and modern neoliberalism. There are crucial differences in relation to attitudes towards the welfare state.

When you say 'the left' I have already explained that many on the hard left Marxists etc have a very different view to soft left (small l) liberals like me. Am I being semantic?

Many on the far left of Labour, Marxists, Socialist workers etc support Brexit as I previously explained. And yes they do have issues with the EU as an institution of capitalism.

But implying the left is one body is as silly as calling TM a facist. The EU does have issues - my problems with it tend to be structural as you have realised I can be a constitutional pedant. I'm not sweeping aside the problems with the EU I just think leaving will cause bigger issues.

Something very depressing about the desire for words to have clear concise meanings and for us to know what precisely we’re talking about to be dismissed as “semantics”.

That is one of my bugbears too, Bertrand.

Comes up quite often at work as I'm an in-house lawyer, when people want to cover their arses but don't want to give too much thought to what they're actually trying to do or how they're trying to do it.

"Can't we just put some wording in?"
"We can... but the wording needs to actually mean something!"

Aaaand we would go round in circles.

I have no doubt that civil servants and government ministers are having exactly this conversation every day with regard to Brexit.

Oh ffs. I dont give a shit about definitions. There is an awful lot of words flying about in politics atm that have deliberately had their meanings corrupted for political purposes.

I do know this though; its possible to have capitalism which isn't extreme. Where the problems lie is with transparency and accountability.

As the power of the media has declined and there is less desire and demand for local journalism to report on local politicians.

As we've moved from in depth quality reporting to 280 characters.

As we've moved to contracts with public bodies with private enterprise which has contained confidentially clauses

As we've over simplified politics to satisfy populist demands rather than take long term grown up political decisions which might not be so popular.

We have weakened safeguards to stop the capitalism from running away with itself.

We have all taken our eyes off the ball in one way or another, apart from the super rich.

We have lost sense of why structures of institutions and laws were set up to protect us all. We have naval gazed. We've forgotten the purpose of right.

Call it what ever the fuck you like to smear x, y or z but the roots of it remain.

Ex senior civil servant here. My family actively avoid being in the same room as me when the news is on.

I think that is one of the key point Red - the meanings have been corrupted for political purposes.

Liberal (small l) was considered a nice middle of the road term so neoliberal sounds a bit fluffy to many people. When in fact using the modern iteration neoliberals are extreme capitalists.

Liberal (small l) was considered a nice middle of the road term

Indeed. Talking about roads, I see the M20 is in the news again: news.sky.com/story/amp/13-mile-lorry-park-may-last-many-years-after-brexit-impact-reports-reveal-11454991?__twitter_impression=true

Only just got the time to come back to this thread and looking forward to reading it all.

Bertrand we have a few like you in my family and I KNOW how they feel!

This is Project Fear mark 2, spin designed to stop Brexit happening. Politicians and wonks hope that if they spread enough fear around, which is what all these ridiculous 'prepping' threads are, they will stop us leaving the EU*
Oh I do hope so. Best plan the Tories have ever had.

This Twitter thread is interesting. A Sky news reporter has traveled through impact studies by local councils- who all seem to think it’s going to be a distaster and are starting to plan for the worst.

mobile.twitter.com/zachjourno/status/1024580520892674049

Local councils who are about to get their budgets squeezed in other news today. Councils who are already struggling not to go bankrupt. Or in the case of Northampton have already gone bankrupt and are now saving they will not be able to preserve services for vunerable people like children and the elderly and will only be able to provide the barest of legal obligations.

Of course post Brexit, Henry VIII powers give ministers the power to do things without parliamentary scrutiny in the name of Brexit. Perhaps they could remove legal obligations for vulnerable groups?

Jeremy Hunt, today (from The Guardian):

"When he was speaking to reporters after his meeting with his Austrian counterpart Karin Kneissl, Jeremy Hunt, the foreign secretary, also dismissed claims that British government warnings about the consequences of a no deal Brexit amounted to scaremongering. According to the Reuters report, he said:

"This is not project fear, this is project reality. We have to make a decision on Britain’s future relationship with the EU by the end of this year and we have to be very honest with ourselves about the choices that we face."

news.sky.com/story/councils-preparing-for-social-unrest-amid-brexit-uncertainty-11455918

I dont feel i ve been had at all.
In fact its going more or less as i thought.

Today Sanofi announce stockpiling of pharma products and uk job losses as they relocate some staff to EU jurisdictions.

As JH says, not Project fear but economic reality, those who say everything will be fine believe in Project Complacency

I dont feel i ve been had at all.
In fact its going more or less as I thought

You're a step ahead of the government then. What is the Irish border solution again?

It’s the leavers who have been “had” unfortunately. And they are dragging the rest of us down with them

I'm now following BrexitCentral on twitter... not b/c I like what they say but at least I can see what the pro-Brexiters believe. Unicorns & Fairydust all the way!!

@SheGotBetteDavisEyes .... as in its a total fuck up, not as it going swimmingly.

Apologies jasjas I misread and read too quickly! I thought the first part of your post was someone else's quote! Oops!

"This is not project fear, this is project reality. We have to make a decision on Britain’s future relationship with the EU by the end of this year and we have to be very honest with ourselves about the choices that we face."

I think that might be the first honest or sensible thing I've ever heard Jeremy Hunt say.

@LoveInTokyo - about time they started fessing up.

Have we had the Public information ads yet?
We usually get these when Gov want to brainwash us, or they have no idea what's going to happen, or they need to warn us.
Is it done more subtly now?
I remember the 70's and 80's films for Nuclear War, Aids, crossing the road, and of course when playing on waste ground don't get inside a fridge