To ask if those panicking about Brexit realise they've been had?

[Growingboys]

Honestly, it's pathetic.

This is Project Fear mark 2, spin designed to stop Brexit happening. Politicians and wonks hope that if they spread enough fear around, which is what all these ridiculous 'prepping' threads are, they will stop us leaving the EU.

Everybody needs to calm the fuck down, stop digging their underground food stores/adding some more tins to the Ocado order, and realise this is spin, pure and simple. The world will continue to turn, and food will continue to be on supermarket shelves, regardless of what happens with Brexit.

I am very sad at the lack of sense and backbone so many people are showing here, regardless of views on Brexit.

I'm off to have a gin and put my feet up. I might even eat something from my freezer tonight rather than save it for armageddon #dicingwithdeath

West London is the richest area in the EU

but the EU didn't stop Westminster from distributing some of that wrealth to the 9 poorest regions
Westminster chose not to
and the voters chose the MPs

Thanks for the detailed explanation RedToothBrush
I'm going to read through a few times to make sure I understand

Austerity : UK policy, decided in Whitehall, nothing to do with the EU
Housing shortage : UK policy, decided in Whitehall, nothing to do with the EU
School place shortage : UK policy decided in Whitehall, nothing to do with the EU
Gig Economy / Zero hours contracts : UK policies decided in Whitehall, disliked by the EU
NHS funding crisis : UK government policy, nothing to do with the EU
Low taxes on the super rich : UK policy, decided in Whitehall, going to be limited by the EU two days after Brexit

so please, how will Brexit make any of the big problems better ?

Oliversmumsarmy

So what will those people do when Brexit not only fails to fix any of those issues, but it actually makes them worse*

Actually because of BREXIT a lot of people have decided not to remain in the UK and now those jobs they have vacated have been taken by those that couldn't get a job previously.

So for some there is the thinking that BREXIT is working because now they are.

I cannot manage without cheese.

Right now the Tory Brexit team are in an office in Brussels saying that we don't really want to leave Europe but it is what the people voted for. Don't worry though as we have our gutter press scaring the bejesus out of the plebs with daily armageddon stories. That way, when we announce in a few weeks that we have negotiated a soft Brexit and have a deal, no one will question it and everyone will sigh with relief.

We are a nation of sheep. Literally.

Wow. Some people believe that leaving the EU will cause such shortages that we will have no electricity, fuel or food because no-one in the world will sell anything to us because we are not in the EU.

Christ, the ignorance on this thread is astonishing. Do you not understand that importing and exporting requires infrastructure? And that after we leave the EU we'll be needing some of our own? And that currently no one's done anything about this? This is the 'sovereignty' you were all so keen on. How do you feel it's going so far?

More to the point some people also believe that it’s critical we stay in the EU as the organisation, which would see British people starve or die from lack of medicine given the above, is best placed to represent our interests.

You voted to leave. Once we do, if we haven't taken care of even the most basic administrative tasks that were needed to fill the void left by all the EU 'red tape' you so despised, how is that the EU's responsibility exactly?

People without adequate food and medicine die every day of the week around the globe. Mostly we're pretty indifferent to it. Do you think we're a special case, because we're British people? You do realise this is the jingoistic arrogance that got us into the mess in the first place?

Unbelievable.

Actually because of BREXIT a lot of people have decided not to remain in the UK and now those jobs they have vacated have been taken by those that couldn't get a job previously.

Where is your evidence for this?

You do realise that post Brexit it won't be a case of all the same jobs existing, but just being done by more British people and fewer foreign people, right? There won't be as many jobs, and the jobs there are will still go to the most suitable candidates. It's not a zero sum game. There might be more shit minimum wage jobs to go around, but they will still be shit minimum wage jobs.

Right now the Tory Brexit team are in an office in Brussels saying that we don't really want to leave Europe but it is what the people voted for. Don't worry though as we have our gutter press scaring the bejesus out of the plebs with daily armageddon stories. That way, when we announce in a few weeks that we have negotiated a soft Brexit and have a deal, no one will question it and everyone will sigh with relief.

That would be excellent, but I don't think the Tories have the brains to pull that one off.

Maybe there should have been a concerted effort to actually listen and take on board what those people with nothing to lose had to say the result wouldn't have been such a shock.

I wasn't surprised by the result. The area that I'm in, 70% voted leave. Many of those I spoke to about it did so for fairly xenophobic reasons. Others were just harking back to the empire and many had just fallen for the concerted onslaught on the EU by the right-wing press in this country.

The sad thing is that these people who feared house price rises and who thought that they were being kept of jobs will be the ones hardest hit by Brexit. It's the ones already in food poverty or those only just managing who will be tipped into far worse situations. It's why Cornwall, who voted to leave at 56.5% are now asking if they can have their EU funding replaced by something else. They're set to lose £60m a year in EU funding.

Their fears should have been listened to, yes. But they should also have been counteracted with facts. The things that were not working for them were caused by our own governments, not the EU.

Actually because of BREXIT a lot of people have decided not to remain in the UK and now those jobs they have vacated have been taken by those that couldn't get a job previously

As has been quite widely publicised, there are fruit picking jobs. Except that a lot of UK citizens don't want to do them. I used to work in academia. I was in direct competition with non-UK EU citizens for jobs. On several occasions, jobs for which I was interviewed went to these non-UK citizens. I no longer work in academia because I couldn't find work.

Thing is, I don't blame those EU citizens for it. Academia was a much healthier, more interesting place for them being there. They contributed enormously to British research and to the reputation of our universities. I think I should have done better. I also wish that the university structure had been different so I could have succeeded more. Now these EU citizens are leaving. But guess what, it's not creating any vacancies because a large % of university funding came from the EU and now we have to replace that if we want them to continue running to the same standards.

The problems you cite are not of the EU's making. Yes, we should have listened to the poorest people about why they were dissatisfied. But we should have tried to fix the problems. Instead, Farage, Johnson and Gove cynically harness and exploited the vote of the poorest, to get what they wanted. And the poor will still suffer.

But on the other end of the scale the jobs are available.

Yup, about a million jobs, and tens of thousands of vacancies in the NHS alone
where are the Brits to take them ?

I’ll ask for the third tim @oliversmumsarmy - what jobs are people now able to get that were previously unavailable to UK citizens?

But on the other end of the scale the jobs are available.

I've moved out of a heavily competitive field which required my PhD into a field in which my PhD is a bonus but not necessary. This has meant taking a 40% drop in salary.

Once more for luck, @oliversmumsarmy, what are these jobs of which you speak. Which jobs were previously unavailable to UK citizens?

EU website:
UK was given £7.2 billion last year from EU funds.
UK contributed £12.6 billion last year to EU funds.
That does not take into account all of the immigrants who live here and claim benefits or UK citizens who are immigrants in EU and claim benefits.

Supermarket jobs, coffee shop jobs, cleaners etc as I said on the other end of the scale from Academia

That does not take into account all of the immigrants who live here and claim benefits
I believe the word you are looking for is tax credits
EU migrants come here to work
to do the jobs Brits will not do
which is why UK unemployment is so incredibly low

or UK citizens who are immigrants in EU and claim benefits.
Such as the UK pensioner health tourists in Spain and France and greece

Supermarket jobs, coffee shop jobs, cleaners etc as I said on the other end of the scale from Academia

These jobs have always been available to British people.

Supermarket jobs, coffee shop jobs, cleaners etc

None of these were blocked from UK citizens. I know plenty of UK citizens who do these jobs.

Why could the people you know not get these jobs?

If a majority voted for it and a government accepted the advisory result, where are all these people who you would imagine would be queuing up to shout their manageable plans and solutions from the rooftops?
If this is spin, it should be easily countered.
We are pretty screwed either way tbh.
There would likely be civil unrest from the North of the country potentially. And when you see the targeted social media campaigning that fuelled racist, bigoted fires you can see why. Do look at this, it's awful.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44966969

because........? And I mean with facts and figures please that are absolute certainties

You sound awfully sensible with exceptional critical thinking.

I'll go away and compile a file for you now. Although, if people believed the Vote Brexit 'facts and figures', I assume any old meaningless toss will do?

@shegotbettedaviseyes

too funny !!!! Don't forget to present your findings on the side of a bus....

I think the south east has no idea how ignored by the government, deprived and isolated areas of the north-west and north-east are and how fed-up and disenfranchised many people feel.
I think there is a comparison to be drawn with Trump's election in America. There was a huge swathe of working class and non-working voters who felt ignored, like their lives, futures and communities did not matter and had not mattered for years to the government . They had watched as their industrial bases were dismantled, were hearing about the issues of immigration, particularly from Mexico and the costs of that, were scared by terrorism on the US mainland by moslem extremists. They did not believe in Hilary Clinton and what she was offering. They did not feel listened to or heard and their perception was they were powerless.
Trump spoke to them in a language they understood about those issues and about their communities and country. They heard him and believed him - because they needed to believe it could be different.

I don't think Brexit is far off that. The government, successive governments but particularly since 2010 onwards has not listened. Many ordinary people in more deprived areas of the country have seen mainly poorly paid employment available, there have been staggering changes to the benefit system, a freeze on public service wages for 8 years, a social housing crisis, funding for Education, health and adult social care has been pared to the bone, our high streets are ghost towns in many deprived areas. People have watched as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. There is a fear of moslems and their culture (not saying it is right just stating a fact), a feeling that the government needs to do what is right for our country rather than do what the EU tells us to do.

The EU is probably not to blame but the message from the media has been, for decades, that it is- that it is a threat to our culture, our job market, our industry, our laws and our borders, that it costs us much more than we gain from it, that it is run by the French and the Germans and we have little say. This perception of it happens to chime with the worries of many people who voted for Brexit - yes some are Tories, yes some are elderly but many are ordinary struggling people.

If you look at the map of how people voted in the referendum, the vote for Brexit was 70+ % of a high turnout in some areas but aart from Scotland, London and the counties directly to the west of London, almost every area voted for Brexit. Infact, if you just look at England, Wales and Northern Ireland the vote for Brexit was overwhelming.

Wasn't overwhelming in NI. Unless it was overwhelming for Remain.