Thread for Brexit supporters

[Maidsrus]

Aren’t you sick of remainders rants? Here’s your chance to tell us the good stuff we’ve got to look forward to...

They weren't talking about Schengen - I was typing too quickly, Norway is in Schengen.

HO is too dysfunctional now to do anything.
Ain't that the truth

meh.. Tangible translations 4 yuz. (why am I doing this for the Brexiters, are they really just incapable??!)

"Make (many!) better trade deals"
Tangible: improve domestic manuf industry, more jobs & more tax revenue for public services
Reality: only small economies will give us a good trade deal, and the access we have to give to our markets for the bigger economies will shaft some of our industries.

"Import stuff cheaper, set own tariffs, more spot-protectionism target industries"
Tangible: cheaper stuff! Protected jobs!
Reality: drive our own producers out of business (unless they get the subsidies), or drive prices up (having to adhere to WTO rules about how protectionism works)

"Not pay money to EU & spend it on something better"
Tangible: more money for public services!
Reality: Smaller economy means less £ for public services

"Control immigration better/more"
Tangible: Fewer furriners!
Reality; import furriners from further away coz our economy still needs them & EU citizens are afraid of coming here

"Change regulations (they usually mean reduce regulation)"
Tangible: reduce costs, prices of goods/services decline
Reality: No one wants crap quality goods and services, special interests will battle out, as ever

"No deferring to outside powers about law making, including on tax"
Tangible: feeling of sovereignty
Reality: Loads of international treaties & rules (eg. WTO) still to follow, and we have less leverage in WTO than we do/did in EU; btw, WTO is under attack by Americans so may not serve as arbiter, cowboy days in world trade could return

"Have More direct democracy"
Tangible: Know who your MP is!
Reality: Most of us will still feel remote from our MP

"Focus on trade with non-EU partners"
I don't know WTF that means

"Avoid political integration with EU-27"
Tangible: feeling of sovereignty
Reality: Have less influence in world than we did so less ability to get & do what we want

Avoid being part of EU Army
Tangible: what it says
Reality: How does one define Army? Was never gonna happen while UK EU member.

Have some vague gain about independent identity
Tangible: feeling of sovereignty
Reality: Personally I feel screwed over & disenfranchised, but guess that's just Remoaning

Lljkk - that’s exactly how I see things!

But there are some very intelligent people in the country who voted for it, business leaders etc. I know we love to hate MPs but they should have had enough nouse to work through the consequences and many saw a rosier future.

Were they short sighted? Were they just being selfish for their own niche prospects? Is their vision of a fabulous Brexit future still intact?

I just can’t see any positives. I really want to be able to imagine some positives!!!!

Maidsrus
Many of the business people who voted for Brexit did so because they look forward to a weakening of labour and environment laws which will increase their profits

JRM is on film suggesting that the UK could align its air quality standards with India

Arron Banks would love to not have to offer consumer protection rights to his customers

Yes the cynic in me agrees with you. The optimist in me wants to believe people are better than that.

But still it’s going to be years before that is realised - they must have known that - and in the meantime things could be very difficult for us all.

I’ve just been reading the white paper (only just - sorrry!) and it does give some reassurance. I know things are going to be difficult and we won’t get everything we want, but I do feel that things could be a lot worse (like the no deal cliff edge could be).

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/725288/The_future_relationship_between_the_United_Kingdom_and_the_European_Union.pdf

I’ve said it before, if TM pulls this off without too much pain she will be absolutely amazing - let’s hope she does.

I read this in bed this morning ....
www.economist.com/britain/2018/07/28/britain-has-fretted-about-decline-before-but-never-like-this?fsrc=rss%7Cbtn

Helena Morrissey annoyed me by talking up the opportunities of Brexit... then again, her job is to find opportunities no matter what the situation is.

Funny that whole thing is coming down to "trade". If UK can get "good" trade deals that would absolve Leave for all sins.

India is willing to give more trade if we give their nationals more visas.

Mercosur, Mexico, Canada, Oz & NZ want a good deal, esp. for their exported foods, I get impression they don't demand a lot in return (too bad about the food miles & impacts on domestic food producers).

USA: wants access & will offer sod all in return, will take a decade to negotiate. SKorea is said to be planning to negotiate hard.

China doesn't need what we produce, Japan doesn't buy much at all.

2.3% of the UK's exports go to Japan - £12.5 billion. Our 11th largest export partner.
1.9% of imports come from Japan - £11.5 billion. Our 12th largest import partner.

3.1% of our exports go to China - £16.8 billion.

buteo
The UK is not an important trading partner of Japans
who they import from ....
tradingeconomics.com/japan/imports-by-country
who they export to
tradingeconomics.com/japan/exports-by-country
what they import
tradingeconomics.com/japan/imports-by-category
what they export
tradingeconomics.com/japan/exports-by-category

Proximity it a primary factor in trade.
THe UK does not have proximity to Japan

Talkin I know that - 48.9% of our total trade is with the EU.

The higher volumes of UK trade with the distant countries of USA, Aus, NZ and South Africa are anomalies - trade with the latter three countries is due to historic ties, otherwise the gravity effect is the predominant factor in our markets.

We don't need a trade agreement with China - it's Germany's third largest export market and they seem to manage just fine.

However, I would point out that we do have reasonably significant trade with Japan - and should benefit from the new EU/Japan FTA for as long as the UK remains in the EU.

The crunch will come when the 10% finished vehicle tariff is completely removed and Japanese car manufacturers find it economically more viable to build their vehicles in Japan and ship to the EU that face a 10% tariff on vehicles built in the UK (unless of course the UK can make a deal to replicate the CU so that we still have a zero tariff).

It makes no sense at all to walk away from our closest trading partners in the hope of making deals with distant ones (and particularly with ones where Germany seems to manage to trade exceedingly well as it is).

I don't think any Brexiters want to stay in the Customs Union.

Leaving the customs union as a done deal was not part of the Leave campaign to the best of my recollection.

Just listen to what the leave campaigners told us before the referendum

However, I would point out that we do have reasonably significant trade with Japan - and should benefit from the new EU/Japan FTA for as long as the UK remains in the EU.

How can that be? I have heard so many times on British TV how useless the EU and their skilled amateur negotiators are at making trade deals. It must be that no member state can benefit from such agreements. Guess we will all be amazed by the shining examples of trade deals from Foxy Liam et al after Brexit. The ones that haven't bolted to avoid any responsibility that is. I, for one, will be watching that space to see how it is done properly.

I don't think any Brexiters want to stay in the Customs Union.

The glorious mysteries of the EU Customs Union and the Single Market. Andrew Neil still getting their functions wrong a year after the referendum. And he the anchor of a daily politics programme. Luckily in one instance Nick Clegg was on hand to tell him he was getting mixed up and explained what they were. Thank goodness the institutions/agencies and of the EU, how it functioned and member states interacted was so clearly and carefully explained before the referendum. Otherwise most people wouldn't have a monkeys and the government would have done a terrible job. And two years on, we are still all expert, of course.

LOL, remainers are so desperate they are now creating stealth Brexit threads to try and what? trick leavers into changing their minds?

TMs soft Brexit white paper is a 2 stage process for actually leaving the EU. Fine by me.

WTO Brexit is also fine by me. As long as we eventually end up leaving the EU. (the sooner the better obs)

Yaralie, that footage by Open Britain was ripped apart ages ago.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=UHzmCHcM7cA

WTO Brexit is also fine by me
Have you actually read up on what that will mean ?

Just that the UK will be the only country in the world trading on full WTO

and getting our way against 163 other countries will be a lot harder than against 27

What is BINO?

Also something I don't understand. When we voted to leave it was said that when we triggered article 50 the 'clock would start ticking' and two years on we would be out of the EU. Now people are saying we can delay?

BINO is Brexit In Name Only.

The 2 years was supposed to be for us to sort our shit out to be able to actually Leave.

We haven't, hence the need to potentially delay.

I does scare me that people still talk of the 2 years as if everything would be automatically and magically sorted by then but I guess it's why this is such a mess.

Given that a year ago Fox said a trade deal with the EU should be the easiest in human history, and is now saying we’ll leave with no deal, I wouldn’t trust him to be able to tie his own shoelaces. Or find his own shoelaces. Or even know what shoelaces are.

Thank you. Well that's the thibg, back then people were implying we'd have no choice but to leave after two years, whether we were ready or not.

@Ta1kinpeace

I think we should add to this that WTO is a bit of a red herring. It simply means No Deal in respect of goods trade with the EU. We lose all other goods trade deals the EU has entered into on our behalf with the ROW. The EU has trade deals with 60 countries including the US.

The red herring part is we miss Services trade. Energy. Nuclear fuel. Medical isotopes. Medicine. Security. Education. Research. Galileo ...

Remember how for two years you have been calling me names... Well guess what it will be no deal..
And shed loads of offers afterwards..
EU farmers have said they will riot if there is no deal.
The common man is going to become the power being the figure heads...

mummmy it's not going to end up with no deal.

You are all having your expectations managed.

The narrative is ramping up the negative effect of no deal so TM can do her u-turn on staying in SM/CU.