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Brexit

Westministenders: A Pickling Summer

983 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/07/2018 22:55

May has survived. The Turd Way has survived.

Whether this is true is another matter. The Turd Way was hijacked by the ERG who ripped it up and turned it from being a starting point to another ridiculous declaration of believing in Royal Unicorns. Rees-Smug has declared May LINO (Leader in Name Only) in tribute to BINO (Brexit in Name Only).

No one yet has grasped the consequences for NI. The backstop was absent from the White Paper except to say, it would never be used.

Johnson also in his commons resignation statement lives in a fantasy land, saying we had 2 and half years to get something in place for the Irish border. Except we don't because we don't have an agreed plan, we haven't hired the people to do it, there is no guarentee the way we are going that we will get a transition agreement agreed to afterall; its entirely dependent on us meeting certain criteria.

Even the Irish themselves haven't got to the point of admitting the possibility that there will be an Irish Border. Under WTO rules, members are legally required to secure their borders. If we are separate members to the EU we have to secure our border and they have to secure their border. In theory NI could be a separate member to the rest of the UK but this would breech the priniciple of a border in the Irish Sea.

No Deal has moved from being an option to being a distinct possibility.

The Trade Bill passed through the Commons unscathed with a dodgy pairing, the assistance of Labour rebels and the brewery tour organising skills of the LD and Labour whips despite the best efforts of Tory Rebels. It suggests the ERG have the numbers to force things but there still are no guarentees of anything.

We've had calls from Justine Greening for another referendum; despite it being obvious that the laws on referendums being ridiculously weak and just about everyone ignoring the findings of the electoral commision and the Leave Campaign's referal to the police. Even then the maximum penalties are wholly inadequate to prevent and deter electoral rigging.

We've had calls for a cross party government of National Unity. Which has been dismissed by Corbyn as an attempt at an establishment stitch up.

We've had the former Head of DexEu (the department who have refused the most FOI requests) and various ERG backbenchers (who said that publication of documents would damage the governments negotiations) ask for transparency and for draft DexEu documents to be published.

Ian Paisley Jr appears likely to be suspended from sitting in the HoC from 4th September for a month for breeching parliamentary standards, losing May one vital vote. She has however been bolstered by the resignation of John Woodcock from the Labour Party pledging his ongoing support of Brexit (he's been a Labour Rebel in the past). Plus there is the O'Mara Factor whereby the whole country could be at the mercy of whether Jared can be fucked to turn up to work at all or not.

There are growing signs out there for increasing support for EEA though despite it all.

The Trade Bill now goes to the Lords, where there is suggestion they might throw it out, after the Speaker declared they had the power to do so as it was a Supply Bill rather than a Money Bill thanks to the Amendments the ERG supplied.

All the while jobs are lost and companies are abandoning the UK and NI has had the most violence in years, but no one cares because Brexit means Brexit and its all worth it.

And finally, when being questioned by the Liason Select Committee, May said that 70 Technical Notices for Households and Businesses in the Event of No Deal would be published in August and September.

The country is in a total pickle.

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Motheroffourdragons · 20/07/2018 09:15

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20nil · 20/07/2018 09:18

She’s saying it because the DUP said she had to. Plain as day, last December.

20nil · 20/07/2018 09:19

The EU and ROI have suggested a sea border more than once.

Motheroffourdragons · 20/07/2018 09:26

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Bodoni · 20/07/2018 09:29

Some good news - www.euronews.com/2018/07/19/this-petition-could-help-uk-nationals-retain-eu-citizenship-after-brexit -
The European Commission has allowed a group to launch a petition calling for permanent EU citizenship after Brexit.

The proposed petition on “Permanent European Union Citizenship” is to be registered on July 23 as a European Citizens’ Initiative (ECI), the Commission announced.

“The main objective of the proposed initiative is to guarantee that European citizenship and its associated rights cannot be lost once they have been attained,” the Commission said in a press release.

“The organisers cite in particular the context of Brexit and the future loss of EU citizenship and rights to UK citizens,” it added.

Bodoni · 20/07/2018 09:51

Guy Verhofstadt on Twitter - twitter.com/guyverhofstadt - "Many Brits are distraught their EU citizenship is being taken from them. The decision by @EUCommission to open a petition on this is important & deserves support. The @EuroparlEN & I have repeatedly called for an examination on how to mitigate this loss"

(Thanks to Oliver Burkeman for retweeting this)

20nil · 20/07/2018 09:54

Mother: that was clearly the implication of her plan last December. That’s why the DUP went nuts. But the problem still remains and I still think will be the be the undoing of this, if there is one. No sea border and frictionless trade mean CU/SM or no deal/extension.

Motheroffourdragons · 20/07/2018 10:01

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DGRossetti · 20/07/2018 10:03

I have always suspected that the UK will happily prevent UK citizens taking up EU nationality (by simply refusing to recognise it). Simply out of pure spite.

RedToothBrush · 20/07/2018 10:06

Alberto Nardelli @ albertonardell
Cheers. I think a managed no-deal would still be categorised as an agreement. But, I guess my question is do MPs think there is a way they can unilaterally avert no-deal. For me no-deal isn't an option/scenario, but a consequence of nothing being ratified by Brexit day 1/2
Another interesting question/angle in a no-deal scenario is that while the EU can do quite a lot unilaterally to protect itself, there is very little the UK can do that wouldn't need the EU to play ball

Ian Dunt @ iandunt
Agreed. Still lots of time to defend though. If nothing on backstop, govt comes back with no-deal in autumn. It'll then have to pass some kind of legislation to prepare before March. That'll provide MPs with plenty of chances to stop it.

Was it a Czech former foreign minister who said that no deal was politically the easiest option or something to that effect.

It's harder to get a deal.

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Motheroffourdragons · 20/07/2018 10:07

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SusanWalker · 20/07/2018 10:09

Basically project "push all the blame onto the nasty EU/Ireland" is being further implemented today. There is a simple solution. Stay in the single market and CU and everything's sorted. They could announce that today and it would all be over.

The trouble with that is we might as well just stay, given all the political bits we 're now trying to opt into like EASA, Eurotom, medicines....

Bodoni · 20/07/2018 10:16

I think the petition goes live on 23 July, mother - I'll post a link as soon as it does. The economic implications of Brexit are still disastrous, but I hated losing my European identity.

HermioneGoesBackHome · 20/07/2018 10:24

I’d love brits to get an eu citizenship. It’s the decent thing to do.

But at the same time, as an eu citizen in the U.K., I feel cheated tbh.
Because I doubt that I would be given a british citizenship in return.
And because, thanks to the hostile environments, I’m pretty sure we, EU citizens, will face EXTRA hoops to be ‘allowed’ to stay where we have made our lives and carry in supporting the U.K. economy, like we’ve done for so long.

Sorry but yes I’m bitter on that front.

HermioneGoesBackHome · 20/07/2018 10:27

no deal was politically the easiest option or something to that effect.
Yep because no deal means doing nothing whereas a deal means you mneed to get approval/support within the party and the HoC where she doesn’t have a majority (in either of them actually)

DGRossetti · 20/07/2018 10:30

I’d love brits to get an eu citizenship. It’s the decent thing to do.

It's not going to happen.

Or rather if it was going to happen, it would have by now.

But at the same time, as an eu citizen in the U.K., I feel cheated tbh

I wouldn't put it past this lot to insist you renounce your non-UK citizenship in order to keep your UK one. That's the simplest and cheapest way to ensure Brexit doesn't leave little-Englander UK-only citizens at any disadvantage.

I dip in and out of legal discussions in various places, and it's interesting to note they are starting to buzz with Brexit queries. So it seems some folk have started taking legal advice. The worrying (or heartening) thing is the lawyers haven't a clue either. This board and thread is far more well informed.

RosinaAlmaviva · 20/07/2018 10:34

I hated losing my European identity.

Me too. I was born after we joined so it's my birthright just as much as my British nationality, and it enrages me that the government want to take it away (even as they themselves apply for Irish passports on the sly).

Even if the UK refuse to recognise it, if the EU do, could we still be treated as EU citizens when we travel to the EU?

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 20/07/2018 10:37

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/07/2018 10:39

Stay in the single market and CU and everything's sorted

The EU (rightly) won't allow that. Remember the 4 freedoms are indivisible. Now we could go for an EEA type agreement for the whole UK (so in the EU but with no say on things) but the Brexiteers don't want that.

DGRossetti · 20/07/2018 10:44

I don't think the UK will ask second passport holders to renounce.

is the the same UK currently reneging on an international treaty ? Or another one ?

RosinaAlmaviva · 20/07/2018 10:46

I think Boris should be encouraged to climb the Faraway Tree the next time the Land of Clowns comes around. He'll be happy with his own kind, the land will soon move away and we'll never have to see him again.

DGRossetti · 20/07/2018 10:46

Even if the UK refuse to recognise it, if the EU do, could we still be treated as EU citizens when we travel to the EU?

Of course. And the UK can refuse to recognise you as a UK citizen when you return.

Pretty certain this has happened elsewhere in the world from vague memory. Maybe around Israel ?

lonelyplanetmum · 20/07/2018 10:47

But at the same time, as an eu citizen in the U.K., I feel cheated tbh

Yes that is understandable. However EU citizens can help by showing the grace and compassion to sign the petition too. If millions ,and it needs MILLIONS, of people sign this petition (when it goes live) it gives a strong message to the U.K. govt that the will of the people is not now behind them.

It also gives a strong message to all in EU member states that hordes of us are pro EU. That message can only help long term future international relationships whatever mess results in the short term.

FridayThirteenth · 20/07/2018 10:51

Interesting article today in the Guardian.

Not sure if it's made me feel more hopeful but I like the idea that getting to the point of no deal would actually facilitate a Norway deal being agreed

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/19/no-deal-brexit-britain-eu-wto-march

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 20/07/2018 10:54

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