Westministers: Operation Over The Cliff

[RedToothBrush]

Bit late and didn't realise the last thread was so close to the end... so this is a very quick OP

What do you think the secret continency plan name the government have in place for the No Deal?

Suggestions Please

Potentially all the world has an opportunity to make a match - I guess. Some countries don't cooperate with UK law enforcement, though. Russia springs to mind...

I should point out that I have NO idea what's gone on in the London Bridge jogger case, so I am speculating as much as the next member of the public. I do have a tiny insight into some of the challenges of modern policing, though.

I do have a tiny insight into some of the challenges of modern policing, though.

Surely the main challenge is a public that want there to be a "law" for everything, but not to pay for it ?

It's not a popular - nor a commonly voiced - sentiment. But the reality is we have the laws we can afford.

Funding is an issue in quite a few public services right now, yes. I suspect that's not a surprise to anyone, though.

Actually, for @DGRossetti and anyone else who's interested in the impact of austerity on the criminal justice system, the Secret Barrister's blog (and book) is a good read:

thesecretbarrister.com/

I follow the blog ... occasionally. Fascinating and scary in equal measure.

Agree that Mark Thomas should be a person of interest in the Putney Bridge case. Also I am sure I'm not the only woman who thought 'Fuck! It's my ex husband!' on first seeing the footage. (It isn't). I think what surprises me about cctv in this case is that apparently it's impossible to pick him up on other cameras in the area once you are looking. I wonder if anyone did.

Certainly having had a failure to deploy a police response to my own house this year in an obvious threat situation (they have apologised) I assume they are working on a whole lot of civilian call handlers and one staffed car per force.

DGRs cartoon of Fucks Bizz at 10.19 made me splutter!

There's certainly problems in that Fucks Bizz drinks cabinet about. making your mind up.

I wonder if TM hums this running through her fields of wheat?

And then you really gotta burn it up
And make another fly by night
Get a run for your money and take a chance
And it'll turn out right
( Doubt it.)

And when you can see how it's gotta be
You're making your mind up
And try to look as if you don't care less
But if you want to see some more
Bending the rules of the game will let you find
The one you're looking for

Don't let your indecision
Take you from behind
Trust your inner vision
Don't let others change your mind

But soon you will find that there comes a time
For making your mind up
And now you really gotta speed it up (speed it up)
And then you gotta slow it down (slow it down)

You gotta play around
But soon you will find that there comes a time
For making your mind up
For making your mind up
For making your mind up

You can trust me to lower the tone, although I have mentioned Greek classics before.

I hope we are not going to get the 'whipping the skirt off' treatment.

Even now - 37 years on - I can remember some of the Melody Maker "pome" about Bucks Fizz ...

B is for boring all blow waved and bland,
pigswill for dolts with their head in the sand
U is for ...
.
.
.
K is for King Crimson, a curious link,
ex members contribute then fade into pink
.
.
.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

(I can also remember NMEs "Rhyming Slang section" ... "Deacon Blue - girl goes woo woo ...")

Now, where are my car keys ....

I think what surprises me about cctv in this case is that apparently it's impossible to pick him up on other cameras in the area once you are looking. I wonder if anyone did.

Suggests - again - "This CCTV. It's a bit crap, innit ?"

Bring back 'Dixon of dock green'. An era when blowing a police whistle loudly would stop most criminals in their tracks ready to be escorted to the local police station.

If we want half decent public services we have to pay for them through taxation.
Even my 15 year old understands this......

If we want half decent public services we have to pay for them through taxation. Even my 15 year old understands this......

I don't think it's a question of not understanding. More a question of believing (for whatever reason) that it's other peoples taxation that should pay for them. One of the reasons the community charge actually got onto the statute books.

The problem with taxation is the second it either becomes unfair. Or is merely perceived as unfair, the whole notion of "together" falls apart, and it becomes us and them. Just a look at all the people whinging about paying for child benefit/CTC confirms that.

There is an existential problem with the invention of money, in that it's made it possible for people to abrogate their community obligations by throwing a few quid in the bucket, so to speak. It's also become a proxy for so many things. Not that this is a new idea. The Old Testament (the bits the DUP forgot about) warn of the dangers. Indeed, one of the key stories of the gospels is Jesus overturning the moneylenders tables in the synagogue. Not that it gets much airplay these days.

(I wonder what a top 10 of Bible references would look like ? And holding on at #10 it's love thy neighbour, up 3 places at #9 it's suffer little children; straight in at #8 - from the New Testament - it's the meek shall inherit the earth. Slipping from #2 to #7 it's God helps those ... [...] and up from #3 to #1 it's this weeks smash Give unto Caesar )

Don't forget the common conviction that taxes are just "wasted" by civil and public servants.

red I clearly remember when imo CCTV really took off:

the "Ring of steel" around London, otherwise known as the "Traffic and Environmental Zone" established in 1993,
in response to IRA bomb attacks on London financial targets in the late 1980s & early 1990s.
Less publicised were the ramped up CCTV inside the ring as well.

The Tory govt was very alarmed at the threat to the City
and indeed the later huge bombs there that destroyed prominent buildings are what really made the govt cave in to key IRA / US demands - and rightwingers like Gove want to reverse the cave-in and remege on the GFA.

Once the GFA was signed, I remember wondering if any govt would really abolish such a useful way of monitoring the public - we had been told during the bombing campaign that the Ring of Steel was just a temporary measure

No surprise: CCTV was massively extended across every UK city & town, with businesses buying in too.
to produce the most watched country in the world

The cute bit is that there is more footage produced by CCTV cameras than is every actually watched. So at the moment, rather than us being the "most watched country in the world," we are just the "most filmed."

Really bang-on AI and facial recognition might change that of course, which brings us back to that humans rights/ Brexit/rule of law business again.

No surprise: CCTV was massively extended across every UK city & town, with businesses buying in too. To produce the most watched country in the world

To what actual effect though ? Thugs still go uncaught. Thieves still thieve. Whilst there have been a few notable wins for CCTV footage (emphasis on the few) no one seems willing to discuss the fact that the crimes in question were committed despite CCTV being present.

And then you have the take-home message for anyone working through the "how to be a psychopath" training manual that you can fail to kill an innocent person by bad timing, and get away scott free anway. Even with a ring of CCTV and buses having an indeterminate amount of CCTV onboard.

Interestingly enough I think there's a distinction in some peoples minds between CCTV, and mobile camera footage. Which hints at an underlying psychology about automation in general ?

The other topic of the BBC-WM phone in this morning was a police initiative in the WM to get drivers to upload dashcam footage of dangerous/illegal incidents. Presumably all the police cars I see without headlights in fog aren't welcome though ...

Really bang-on AI and facial recognition might change that of course

You are right, it would. But don't hold your breath. File under "fusion power" - five years off.

I have seen some very impressive specific uses of neural processing (back to IBM Hursley). But "AI" ? "A bollocks" more like it.

Ah, but you are assuming CCTV is watching in order to catch criminals
No
Successive govts prioritise its use for observing any signs of subversion & revolt among the general population.
It is part of the Public Order apparatus, an arm of the State, helping to monitor & control the public

On a lighter note, I'm still chuckling that Trump's proposal to withdraw from the WTO is officially entitled

the * "Fair And Reasonable Tariff bill* "
i.e. the FART bill

Will Trump be too vain to let the name of his flagship America First policy be changed - has anyone dared mention it to him ?

I hope the subversive civil service draftsman has covered their tracks well

Since your mobile gives your position to within a few metres it wouldn't take much to identify where most people (with mobiles) are on the planet. That happens now. Whether actual messages and pictures are being recorded by phone companies/Gov/foreign Gov is simply the next stage. In theory it should not be done but who would you trust?

With a peg I presume!

The prevalence of CCTV, the "monitoring" of where you are via your phones, the listening by smart appliances like Alexa and smart TVs really do make you wonder if George Orwell had a time machine.

The only thing that malfunctioned was the name of the year - everything he was predicting (including the geopolitical alignment of the former UK with the former USA rather than Europe) is coming true. He was just a few decades early in his predictions.

It is part of the Public Order apparatus, an arm of the State, helping to monitor & control the public

Has that ever worked as a permanent situation ? Anywhere ? Anytime ?

Having been taught in the 1970s and (early) 80s that the Iron Curtain was a fact of life, it's breathtaking how quickly it melted away. In fact, you could be forgiven for taking a punt on an accumulator in 1980 that before 2000:

• the Berlin Wall would fall (and/or Germany would re-unify)
• Nelson Mandela would be released (and/or the fall of apartheid)
• the UK and Sinn Fein would negotiate a peace in Northern Ireland.

That's my history. What I saw happen.