Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministers: Operation Over The Cliff

978 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/06/2018 22:34

Bit late and didn't realise the last thread was so close to the end... so this is a very quick OP

What do you think the secret continency plan name the government have in place for the No Deal?

Suggestions Please

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
DGRossetti · 02/07/2018 10:19

.

Westministers: Operation Over The Cliff
woman11017 · 02/07/2018 10:36

really, really hard to cover up - even with compliant "witnesses

This case really puzzles me: very clearly caught on CCTV. Perpetrator of not brought to justice.

Police close investigation into Putney Bridge jogger who pushed woman in front of bus on London street

Failure to catch the attacker, despite CCTV of him going viral, seen as sign that Theresa May cuts 'destroyed the police service

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/putney-bridge-jogger-case-closed-investigation-latest-bus-pusher-failure-cuts-cctv-theresa-may-a8420696.html

Footage is very clear and very shocking. Guess what colour the man is.

woman11017 · 02/07/2018 10:40

Roma communities fear deportation in post-Brexit Britain

Charities warn that many lack documentation required to gain settled status

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/02/roma-communities-fear-deportation-in-post-brexit-britain

BBC have a new programme called "The Great British Deportation" in production. (joking)

DGRossetti · 02/07/2018 10:40

CCTV is vastly overrated. Given how many cameras the UK has, there's clearly little law and order value in them (which makes you wonder what they are for).

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2018 10:46

Can anyone remember why CCTV suddenly became so widespread and was heralded as a way of preventing crime? Cos it's quite relevant.

OP posts:
Motheroffourdragons · 02/07/2018 10:52

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DGRossetti · 02/07/2018 10:55

Can anyone remember why CCTV suddenly became so widespread and was heralded as a way of preventing crime? Cos it's quite relevant.

When a government needed a reason to justify cutting police numbers ? Added with an almost fetishishtic obssession with technology and crime ? I would argue that CCTV is the handmaiden to DNA (or vice versa). Again, relevant, because people who argue for capital punishment simply bat away any and all criticisms with "DNA, innit". Including one Priti Patel ...

woman11017 · 02/07/2018 10:56

why CCTV suddenly became so widespread
When they started to be widespread was 1985 (post Miners Strike). However, guess which regime invented them. (clue, in 1942)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-circuit_television

54321go · 02/07/2018 10:57

There is of course the big row in Italy (?) with the Roma there resisting being 'registered'. I would much prefer not to be registered and pay tax and basically do as I please.
High resolution CCTV cameras and recognition software MIGHT be useful, but unless everyone wants permanent surveillance 24/7/365 it is not a 'solution'.
Given that there are always 'bad apples', how many police/security persons do you need before they are committing the majority of 'crimes'?

DGRossetti · 02/07/2018 11:00

Was it the Jamie Bulger case?

Before that. Sadly, and horrifically, his abduction was caught on CCTV, which revealed the fact it was children that were responsible.

The bottom line is the UK seems to like doing everything on the cheap. (Has anyone caught the thread about the RAC being pisspoor and loads of comments on how they've cut everything to the bone). Water shortages due to no investment in infrastructure ... waiting for the grid to give out at any minute ... 19th century rail network. "Healthcare professionals" replacing qualified nurses and doctors ...

CCTV appeals to the cheap policing fans. Why did we get PCSOs ?

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2018 11:02

James Bulger - Feb 1993
Warrington Bombing - March 1993

There was no footage of the bombing, whilst the previous month you had the haunting image of the child being led to their death. Which obviously looked at the time like the perfect solution. No evidence about its effectiveness though.

Yet has CCTV really acted as a deterrent? Lots of cameras are never manned nor have film in.

We gave up our privacy for the promise of safety for fuck all.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 02/07/2018 11:02

High resolution CCTV cameras and recognition software MIGHT be useful

Not in the real world for a long time.

, but unless everyone wants permanent surveillance 24/7/365 it is not a 'solution'.

But may be the goal ? Nothing to hide, etc etc ...

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2018 11:03

First row in the country to get it was Warrington

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 02/07/2018 11:04

*town

OP posts:
54321go · 02/07/2018 11:05

I am afraid I am with the engineers for the 1942 application of CCTV.
Watching a rocket launch at close range would set your clipboard alight.
I am not condoning the later use of those rockets.

Motheroffourdragons · 02/07/2018 11:06

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

PineappleSunrise · 02/07/2018 11:16

Without derailing this thread too much, the US is quite a different culture when it comes to policing. Americans have accepted that they are all allowed to be armed to the teeth, and therefore it's perfectly "reasonable" for an officer to be tooled up like a paramilitary and to shoot first and ask questions later. That said, I completely agree that what the public will accept from their police can change, and keeping a very open discourse about what is and isn't acceptable is important. (And this bring us back to human rights and Brexit, right?)

On CCTV - it is mostly not "owned" by the police. That means it is not useful for every investigation (not pointed at the right spot, owner hasn't loaded film), although it can be used for quite a few.

Bodyworn IS owned by the police. And it is recording arrests/incidents, so it is pointing "at the right spot". (And officers like it because it tends to result in less violent arrests - even people who aren't thinking far enough ahead to NOT commit a crime because they might get caught DO refrain from lamping an arresting officer when they realise they can't claim self-defence. And vice versa, of course.)

The London Bridge jogger is a really irritating case, I agree. I don't think it tells you much about video in crime investigation though, except that if an officer can't find a match to a video or police drawing, then she can't bring a charge. In theory video/actual photo should make that easier than a police drawing from a witness (and we all know what witness memory is like), but it doesn't automatically mean you get your perp every time.

Buteo · 02/07/2018 11:19

mother have you never watched Shetland? People get murdered there on a regular basis, it’s nearly as crime ridden as Midsomer.

Or option B, Lerwick residents were worried about damage to floral displays.

DGRossetti · 02/07/2018 11:20

Lots of cameras are never manned nor have film in.

Er ... the 1980s called, and want their cameras back Grin.

Quite aside from the optical and technical issues (I have personal experience of an HD camera completely failing to capture something I saw with my own eyes, so am very Hmm about their efficacy) are the issues - quite properly - around hearsay evidence in the E&W legal system. Added to that things like RIPA, various levels of data protection, and the fact we start with a presumption of innocence and the evidential value of CCTV is limited.

It should have been obvious from the get-go really. Pre CCTV, you had x people walking around on the off chance they might catch someone doing something. Post CCTV you have x-1 people waling around, while one person directs them to the scene. Looks great on paper until you try an scale it up, and you get x people watching the CCTV and 0 people doing the chasing ....

But, back to Brexit and the BBC. Not sure if local radio is affected by the same edict, but in a phone-in discussion (BBC West Midlands) earlier today, the presenter subtly cut off "Nigel" whose answer to the NHS crisis involved cracking down on health tourism by charging foreigners. And credit where it's due, the presenter asked a researcher to find out the cost of health tourism to give listeners the facts. It's (still) 0.3% .....

PineappleSunrise · 02/07/2018 11:20

^"but unless everyone wants permanent surveillance 24/7/365 it is not a 'solution'."

"But may be the goal ? Nothing to hide, etc etc ...^'

Back to The Circle again, which riffs on the old idea of the Panopticon en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon and just how wrong it could possibly go.

DGRossetti · 02/07/2018 11:24

The London Bridge jogger is a really irritating case, I agree. I don't think it tells you much about video in crime investigation though, except that if an officer can't find a match to a video or police drawing, then she can't bring a charge.

Remember that video was shared publicly, so potentially all of the world has had a chance to ID the suspect. Maybe somebody has. But on the basis I'd suggest Mark Thomas as a possible "match", we return to my assertion (channels Rob Newman) : "CCTV. It's a bit crap, innit ?"

Motheroffourdragons · 02/07/2018 11:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DGRossetti · 02/07/2018 11:25

Old idea of the panopticon ?

Have you seen the QE2 in Birmingham ?

54321go · 02/07/2018 11:33

The Workhouse near Retford (?) used this principle to prevent the inhabitants from enjoying themselves too much when having their outdoor break time.

PineappleSunrise · 02/07/2018 11:42

Yep, it's an old idea. Never entirely goes away, though. (See: lack of concern about sharing personal data until Cambridge Analytia.)

Swipe left for the next trending thread