Westministers: Operation Over The Cliff

[RedToothBrush]

Bit late and didn't realise the last thread was so close to the end... so this is a very quick OP

What do you think the secret continency plan name the government have in place for the No Deal?

Suggestions Please

Several people have mentioned the London Olympics as the last Together time when we could all feel proud of being British. I grew up with learning English-Irish-Scottish-Welsh songs in school - I get the impression that died out long ago (anyone?) and if so, I think that’s a pity. Anyway over the last two years, I’ve noticed that I wince at traditional national bonding things - like the Union Jack (I always did wince at the England flag, sadly - tainted by drunken football louts) and English “in jokes” - I get Farage’s and Boris's cynical mugs mentally superimposed on them, and suspect the joke-offerer of being a rabid Brexiter and potentially hostile to me and mine. That’s quite apart from the real practical damage to my family and the country. It would take quite something to make me feel I belong to this country again. (I’m English back as far as I can trace, with a bit of Welsh. But my family’s vulnerable.)

Slightly off-topic, but at the PRO-Brexit rally last weekend there were lots of yellow and black flags that I didn't recognise. After a bit of research, I found out they belonged to the identitarians. We've had EDL, NF, BNP etc. and now there are some new boys on the block calling for repatriation of immigrants, and the preservation of European 'ethno-cultural identity'. Is anyone else aware of/concerned about this group?

I’d vaguely heard of them, but wasn’t sure exactly what they were about.

I still find it staggering that Corbyn is effectively supporting those people. It’s so telling that the only people prepared to take to the streets over Leave now are the nutters.

The Remain movement is realistically Corbyn’s only chance to have a real impact on UK politics - it’s exactly the sort of thing Labour should get behind. Defending jobs, the NHS, human rights. With this insanely bad minority government and rebels in the Tories he could stop this madness.

He is useless, and he will just be another Foot or Kinnock, but without even being able to claim the moral high ground.

Hooray for Labour - free Tommy Robinson!

Is anyone else aware of/concerned about this group
Yup. They are violent terrorists who should be arrested. Brexist boot boys are being given a long leash. Deliberately.

I remember finding the Olympic opening ceremony twee and embarrassing. But I’m quite grumpy and not a fan of the Olympics anyway.

I don’t really get patriotism or what it means to be proud to be British. It’s just lines on a map. When the World Cup or the Olympics is on, I just watch the sports and teams that interest me because they’re good, or have come from nowhere etc.

The EU makes sense to me as a project - there’s more that unites us and all that.

I did enjoy Danny Boyle’s opening ceremony though, precisely because it wasn’t a load of flag waving, Last Night of the Proms-style cobblers.

I actually enjoyed the Opening Ceremony - which surprised me was despite being a Scot who resented all the money that had been siphoned from Scotland to London (both central Government funding as it was deemed to be of UK national interest and from the Lottery Fund) despite assurances at the time of the bid that this wouldn't happen (And for contrast, the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow 2 years later received no central funding).

It probably helped that we were down in London, staying with a MNer and her family as she'd offered to put dh, ds and me up so that we could watching the road cycling which was passing near her house (We did arrange to meet up briefly when I was down in London at a Wine Fair a few months previously so that she knew I wasn't a Hairy Trucker ).

Fond memories

I still find it staggering that Corbyn is effectively supporting those people.

Yes. I like a list. Here is a brief list of the people who Jezza supports:

EDL
NF
BNP
Identitarians
Trump
Farage
Rees Mogg
Boris Johnson
Michael Gove
Andrea Leadsome
Arron Banks
Tim Martin of Wetherspoons
Iain Duncan Smith
and my Daily Express spouting FIL.

I wonder if he ever has doubts? I mean the leader of the opposition not my FIL.

"Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error." (Cicero)

^Whatever happens will divide Remainers from Leavers
and Tory Leavers from Lexiters from Sod 'Em All Leavers
^
All forms of Brexits will worsen the economy,
but the poorer & more chaotic the chosen / accidental Brexit produces, the more divided & angry the UK becomes

imo, there will be 4 stages:

1. Transition, either with May agreeing temporary pay-no-say
   or if she doesn't, then just unilaterally granted and cherry-picked by E27 for their benefit only
   The EU will resist A50 extension instead, unless a way can be found to avoid UK MEPs

2. Brexit itself
   main 2 possibilities are Norway+ (BINO) vs WTO / no-deal / accidental

3. Brexit corrected
   If it is a crash Brexit, then a (possibly new) govt is likely to negotiate BINO under emergency conditions,
   i.e. having lost all leverage for the best terms

4. Rejoining EU
   In 10 years time, new demographics & economic state in 10-15 years time may well lead to negotiations under Article 49 to rejoin.
   However, the EU is likely to resist full membership until UK public support is around 70% and the nationalist fantasies are confined to a tiny fringe

I wonder if he ever has doubts?

I doubt it. There's a Leaver on here who, I suspect, would align herself as a Lexiter but thinks anything negative about Brexit isall to do with other people.

Interesting BBC headline about applications for (non UK) EU citizenship up by so much. Completely missing the fact that tucked away beneath that are an unknown number of UK citizens who held EU dual nationality anyway ...

I make a point now of using my Italian passport for ID. Curiously GiffGaffs online adult verification system recognised it as valid ID .... which does beg questions about how much and where data is being shared into/out of the UK ?

That's interesting DG but only the tip of the iceberg because the figs count those who have obtained another citizenship, it doesn't count those who applied from 2017 onwards and didn't get confirmation by the end if 2017. So those numbers are likely to increase significantly

Sorry, forgot link ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44629193

The London Olympics opening ceremony was a triumph, and the last time I felt actively, vividly, tearily proud and glad to be a Brit. I think if they'd got Danny Boyle to run the Remain campaign the vote would have gone differently.

I'm hardly even joking.

On the Chequers thing, I can't decide whether it's going to be more of an Agatha Christie locked-room murder mystery or a Bel Canto -style hostage situation.

How the hell did we end of with the future of our country being decided by a bunch of selfish incompetents back-stabbing each other in order to grab individual power for themselves?

Because people vote for them. They blindly vote for party not the person. How the hell do people even have a hope of getting rid of lightweights like Leadsom or McVey?

How the hell did we end of with the future of our country being decided by a bunch of selfish incompetents back-stabbing each other in order to grab individual power for themselves?

Because people vote for them. They blindly vote for party not the person.

Add those two statements together, and it's arguably hard to think of reasons why we should respect our fellow citizens

Meanwhile, back at the ranch ....

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44668572

Environment Secretary Michael Gove physically ripped up a report on Theresa May's preferred option for a new customs partnership with the EU.

He was said to have been "livid" as he felt the government document downplayed his objections to the proposal.

(contd)

Mind you he might as well rip it up as the EU have already said it's not acceptable to them.

Funny how the brexiteers are so quick to put down any suggestions, without coming up with any solution of their own. I'd love to see the research the ERG have been allegedly doing with taxpayers money.

I suspect the research consists of “turns out we can’t have a hard Brexit cos of Northern Ireland, so best be as obstructive and unhelpful as poss until time runs out and we go over the cliff. Tally ho!”

Why on earth doesn't Theresa May just sack Gove? Or is it a case of keeping your enemies close? Gove I think, genuinely believes in Brexit. Johnson, no - he could do a U turn pretty smartish if he thought it was to his advantage to do so.

Let us not forget that Boris said Britain remaining in the European Union would be a "boon for the world and for Europe" in an article he drafted but then decided not to publish.

He was therefore writing Remain-backing articles only two days before by revealing he would be campaigning for Brexit.

It's all a game to him.

Its all a game to him

Indeed , being independently wealthy means you can play games without having to worry about the consequences. Being an MP means you have the ability to play games with other peoples lives and livelihoods without any concern about it impacting your own.

I'm not sure if it is the hot weather or the sauvignon blanc or a combination of the two , but I keep thinking now would be the perfect time for a very British coup

Boris is treating it like a debating society motion, where the winner is the side that puts forward a compelling, cleverly constructed argument regardless of whether it's actually a ridiculous thing to contemplate. (But I'm still waiting for the compelling argument bit...)

Gove is an ideologue who won't be shifted when he believes that he is right. He and May hate each other, but she needs him inside the tent pissing out cos he'd be too dangerous with time on his hands and nothing to lose

My disgust for Gove has reached a new level. I thought he and Johnson looked like a couple of naughty six year olds caught raiding the biscuit tin when the Referendum result was announced. I now think that Gove is behaving worse than a two year old having a tantrum. He should be ashamed of himself. Better still, he should start making some constructive suggestions.