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Brexit

Westministenders: Brexmeggadon Redux.

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2018 16:36

The last thread started about how the Withdrawal Bill was in tatters with The Rebel Forces feeling confident of staying in the Customs Union and there seemed to be a growing backlash towards the hostile environment and the need to reduce immigration.

This thread starts with the revelation this week that Farage has claimed that he never said the UK would be better off financially under Brexit, just that we would be self-governing and the Brexmeggadon Planning Revelation.

The Sunday Times has published a story about No Deal Brexit as senior civil servants have drawn up scenarios for David Davis. If you remember the minister responsible for No Deal is actually Steve Baker. That’s ERG founder Steve Baker. And if you remember he is facing queries from Brexiteers about whether he is truly committed to Brexit on the basis of his recent actions and comments.

There were reported that his plans for No Deal were stalling and proving impossible.

And today we have the Brexmeggadon ‘Project Fear’ article with three levels of jeopardy: Mild, Severe and ‘Oh my fucking God’.

Suddenly all our talk of stockpiling on Westministenders are starting to look rather prudent and enlightened. Ian Dunt’s book is looking like a Brexit Manual. David Allen Green is just standing there going ‘Well’. And George Osbourne is maniacally laughing his head off somewhere.

In the Level 2 Disaster Planning we are looking at Dover collapsing on Day One, food would run out within days and hospitals would run out of medicine within weeks. Petrol would run out within week two too.

As I’ve point out before in the worst case, the government has insufficient police and army to manage a worse case scenario.
Of course this is so explosive, its only been shared with a handful of ministers and are ‘locked in a safe’ and The Sunday Times don’t tell you what is in the ‘Bremeggadon’ scenario.

Or you could just read social media for the ‘scaremongering’.

We now have political attempts to FOI or force the publication of these reports to look forward too. The irony being that in this case the government will have a legitimate case that it would be against national security to release them. Of course they can’t actually admit that either!

Naturally Cabinet ministers and DeXeu has dismissed the article as not true. What else could they do?

Only for a ‘government source’ to claim that the denial was ‘untrue’ to Sam Coates of The Times.

Matthew Holehouse pointed out that the government can’t say for certain what impact no deal will have on medicine supply chains, because review on this isn’t due to finish its “initial” work until “late spring 2018”. Of course we are now in Summer 2018 and its still not been completed. Which obviously bodes well.

And there is talk of Chilcot style inquiries into Brexit sometime in the future. Westministenders is once again way ahead on that score…

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Meanwhile over in the Labour corner, growing pressure has been mounting on Corbyn. This week has seen the launch of a Corbyn supporting left wing pressure group, comprised of grassroots and trade unions to stop him supporting the harakiri of Tory Brexiteers.

We wait with tepid enthusiasm and sceptical levels of optimism for Corbyn’s climb down. St Jeremy knows what he wants...

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What does all this talk all mean? I think its difficult to read as much different to the media catching up with what the sane – who have a modicum of understanding of what trade deals, the custom union and the single market actually are - have been saying for sometime. Reality can’t be spun forever. At some point, you have to start preparing the public for the coming shit storm or the inevitable u-turn. This seems likely to be the move to kill off No Deal once and for all.

In terms of a ‘possible civil war’ under Brexmeggadon, its noticeable key Brexiteers are backing away from the cake. That doesn’t smack of civil unrest, that smacks of cowardice and a lack of Brexiteer leadership as no one is truly prepared to nail themselves to the mast as the ship starts to sink.

I also don’t think people will blame other people in the event of no food and no medicine and no medicine. I think people will be fairly unified in blaming those in charge who caused ‘No Deal’.
Oh and The American Trade Wars have began.

Ronald Regan ‘We should beware of the demagogues who are ready to declare a trade war against our friends—weakening our economy, our national security, and the entire free world—all while cynically waving the American flag.’

Hmmm. Sounds a lot like Brexit doesn't it?

Turnips anyone?
Planting season is late June to early July.

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54321go · 11/06/2018 17:18

“Finished a Cabinet meeting off to Geneva
We are going nowhere and we know the EU will walk away in 2 weeks”

A minor point, the EU isn't going anywhere, it is already at home, sitting in the comfy chair with it's pipe and slippers.

Icantreachthepretzels · 11/06/2018 17:20

JDD:
“Yes they have finally got their heads around this
And that it can only be done AFTER we leave...in around 6 years”

Surely this is progress? Shockingly slow progress - but progress, nevertheless.

DGRossetti · 11/06/2018 17:22

A minor point, the EU isn't going anywhere

As Trevor Noah pointed out to a whooping US audience:

"The British wanted Brexit to take their country back.

From whom ? It never went anywhere."

54321go · 11/06/2018 17:22

One problem is the 'bad' aspects have already started.
Britain is in the 'poo' now. The only question is, depending on various decisions, how deep is the 'poo', and how much deeper will it get?

Danniz · 11/06/2018 17:25

I think that any form of political protest is not seen as a middle class thing to do - it's sort of anti-establishment, and after all the establishment is a good thing and it's only loser trouble-making types who make a fuss.
I suspect it's that kind of thinking.

Icantreachthepretzels · 11/06/2018 17:30

oh FFS - again!
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/11/rees-mogg-no-need-for-customs-checks-at-dover-in-no-deal-brexit

News outlets should refuse to have him on whilst he insists on spouting such dangerous, deceptive bullshit.
And I know the legal experts have dismissed it - but brexiteers believe what they want. They won't accept 'expert' opinion. And people who want reassuring will believe him because they want reassuring. Once he's said it, it doesn't matter how many times people who know more than him explain why he is lying wrong, people just remember what he said - and cling to it.

How can you agitate for a WTO rules brexit -and then the very first thing you suggest to allieviate the problems this cause is break WTO rules? I'd say it was insane - but it's not, it's criminal.

I hope, when all this is over, he is put up against a wall.

bastard.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/06/2018 17:30

"From whom ? It never went anywhere." 😂

DGRossetti · 11/06/2018 17:31

I think that any form of political protest is not seen as a middle class thing to do

My DM sat in the middle of the road with a lot of other parents in 1978, after a kid was killed in our road. Arrested too. Much to my DFs shame.

Danniz · 11/06/2018 17:35

So what happens if/when the UK breaks WTO rules?

54321go · 11/06/2018 17:44

I like JRM's carefully made plan. There will be no delay at Dover.
OK fine.
The delay will be at Calais. So, when the French customs officers get their clipboard and pens out to record all freight movement by hand (OK they have computers but why should they waste their energy) so in about 30 minutes after 'Brexit' there will be a massive and ever increasing tailback of trucks.
Similarly the ferries will be turned back or as I think most are French operated, won't even bother going.

54321go · 11/06/2018 17:49

Then the UK government can take the complaints to the European,,,,oh were not members anymore,, Damn!

Icantreachthepretzels · 11/06/2018 17:57

So what happens if/when the UK breaks WTO rules?

Can the other nations sue us? So if we wave through EU trucks, without a deal, literally every non-EU country sending their own goods to us can put in a law suit against us... that will end well for us.

Maybe they'll just sanction us - by not trading... that will end well for us.

Maybe they'll just put us out of our misery and nuke us - I think it might be the kindest thing at that point. Kind of a 'they shoot horses don't they?' moment.
Apologies to Ireland and France, who will be in the fall out zone. But at least we got our sovereignty back.

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2018 18:18

Laura Kuennsberg @ bbclaurak
Whispers govt has backed down and is offering a new amendment on Customs, changing wording on Customs 'Union' to customs 'arrangement - with brexiteer and remainer names on it - probably avoids a defeat on Weds

Customs amendment compromise being put together by Oliver Letwin I'm told - senior source says it's 'sounding positive' - would have names of key brexiteers like Rees Mogg backing it, and Remain rebels like Nicky Morgan

Anything backed by Rees Smug and Morgan is just bollocks and won't solve the problem in the long run.

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54321go · 11/06/2018 18:23

The contents for any trucks will have to be paid for and the Pound won't be that welcome so it will have to be in some other negotiated form and probably 'cash'.
With the great negotiating skills demonstrated over the last 2 years the 'great new deals' may take a while to come on stream.
If JRM can't even think the 'border checks' issue through with any semblance of reality and he is a 'top dog' there is a lot of negotiating to do.

54321go · 11/06/2018 18:27

Sounds like we are still choosing the colour of the dusters we are going to use to polish the deckchairs on the Titanic.

mrsreynolds · 11/06/2018 18:35

I'm very disappointed in the rebels

Not very rebellious at all in the end?

The referendum was supposed to pander to the right wing

This - whateverthrfuckitis - is to prevent jrm or bojo as pm.

The Tory party are destroying this country.

woman11017 · 11/06/2018 18:37

I'm very disappointed me too MrsR Sad

Icantreachthepretzels · 11/06/2018 18:41

There was a guardian article put up about an hour ago that said lots of the tory rebels remained unimpressed and were still planning to rebel - and that there were a couple of undecideds who may join them for the first time.

So my favourite ever paper the express is currently running this:
ANTI BREXIT (their capitals) Mps could wrest control of negotiations with the European Union from the government by forcing Theresa May to give them a meaningful vote on the final brexit deal

I'm losing it... I've lost it ... it's gone... The Express are now bewailing parliamentary oversight? They want out of the 'undemocratic EU' in order to give ultimate power to an not successfully elected executive? And they're just saying that. Balls out - we want a dictatorship?
I'm just ... even in the tiny mind of the most loony, pig shit thick headbanging brexiteer - the words 'meaningful vote' cannot be twisted to mean something bad, unless you don't want to live in a democracy.

But if they don't want to live in a democracy... then why the hell should anyone pay even lip service to result of the referendum?

Pig. Shit. Thick.

54321go · 11/06/2018 18:47

Calm down Icant, it's only a disaster!

RedToothBrush · 11/06/2018 18:50

The meaningful vote and the customs union votes and the Henry VIII clause ones are the three that are huge.

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RedToothBrush · 11/06/2018 18:54

Peston 15 mins ago

m.facebook.com/1498276767163730/posts/2070940296564038/

Seems to think Rebels have backed May but are the ones forcing it.

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Icantreachthepretzels · 11/06/2018 19:16

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-brexit-second-referendum-remain-phil-hogan-farage-gove-a8394201.html

Phil Hogan ( Irish EU commissioner) says the tide is turning and we could have a second vote.

Is he right?

Apparently someone at the foreign office had said we could - but that brexit cannot be reversed so it would be a bad idea.
The very next paragraph says Tusk and Juncker have repeatedly said Brexit can be reversed. so more foreign office lies

Is this sort of information reaching enough people? It makes me wish I was on FB and twitter so I could share it more widely. But would I just create an echo chamber?

I swing so wildly between the depths of despair and clinging to any hope that comes along. I think - whatever the outcome - my mental health will have been wrecked by the time is over.

54321go · 11/06/2018 19:16

To all the Remoaners out there I think there are too many harsh things being said so we should rejoice in the things that leaving will bring us:
Rising prices.
Uncertainty.
Hassles when traveling.
Lowering incomes.
Fewer 'furriners' wanting to come to the UK.
Chlorinated chicken (if we are lucky).
General unrest and dissatisfaction with the Remainers for taking so long to get us out.
I am sure there is lots more to celebrate, and the good news it's going to get 'more' as the time goes on.

Danniz · 11/06/2018 19:29

Pretzel - joining Facebook and Twitter and convincing a few people can't hurt. A lot of people have no idea what is happening.

Peregrina · 11/06/2018 19:38

The only possible benefit I could think of is that it might cause a house price reduction in the South East of England.

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