Not the Brexit Arms

[bearbehind]

Since BrexitArmsLandlady says she isn't starting anymore threads here's a place to discuss Brexit developments for those that still want to.

It never ceases to amaze me what a shambles this is.

The cabinet still can't even agree what we want, let alone what we're going to get.

It's only junior ministers that are resigning though. Apart from Davis and Johnson the cabinet are so for staying loyal to May. My feeling is there needs to be a few more big name resignations before any rebellion gathers momentum.

Ds (17, off to study IR at Aberdeen and wanting to be a diplomat) asked me last week if any Secretary of State had ever been uniquely qualified for their role and only ever wanted to do (and only ever did) that role.

I thought of saying Jeremy Hunt but a) he wasn't qualified and b) he'd finally given up the SoS for Health role in favour of becoming Foreign Secretary.

I could only come up with Lord Carrington. Can anyone suggest anyone else?

Bear re TM repeating the same phrases over and over again, I was bought ‘I, Maybot’ for Xmas and thoroughly recommend it.
From where I’m sitting, the only thing anything this lot are passionate about are their careers.
My theory about BJ’s bombshell is that he is going to declare that he is now a woman and wishes to be called Angela.
Literally nothing would surprise me anymore

They are framing it - the Brexitteers and the Brexit newspapers - have clearly framed it that 'Theresa May's Brexit' will fuck up the country. Not their Brexit, their Brexit would have been awesome.

But tick tock ... 18 months have been wasted.

there's still more non-Leavers than Leavers.
Then how the hell did leavers win a referendum and trigger A50?

Those who didn't vote aren't going to err on the side of making themselves poorer Another project fear slogan. I think all you can say about those who didn't vote, is that they probably wont vote.

Back to the reality that a majority of voters VOTED to LEAVE the EU. Something remainers just cant come to terms with.

18 months have been wasted

We agree that but brexiteers don't. They think that nasty eu or that silly Theresa may is the problem- not the cluster fuck of brexit itself.

fangirl if you think people voted to make themselves poorer then you are bonkers.

If the price of a Leaving is making yourself poorer do you honestly think those who weren't bothered enough either way to vote, are going to side with that?

That's not Project fear- its basic human nature.

The Leavers won a flawed referendum. Mrs May foolishly triggered A50 before proper assessments were made of the real impact.
Now that the real implications of leaving are starting to be noticed, companies leaving and prices rising many will reassess the situation and may well prefer on balance to remain.

This is spooky: written in February and a few weeks out so far.
@J_amesp
I’ll spell this out as a Brexit timeline, as people still seem confused:
March: no transition deal due to UK incompetence.
June: internationals finalise departures.
October: no free trade agreement due to UK incompetence
January: EU 27 ratifies no deal exit
March ‘19: chaos

Now that the real implications of leaving are starting to be noticed, companies leaving and prices rising many will reassess the situation and may well prefer on balance to remain

You would think but...

Unless there is a real concerted effort to persuade the larger EU employers to retain manufacturing and services in the UK very soon, they will just leave. They can't afford to be messed about much longer.
Many smaller and medium companies will not want to 'show their hand' as they also have to retain their position in their own marketplaces and not want to appear weakened by Brexit as they risk hostile takeovers.

if you think people voted to make themselves poorer then you are bonkers People didn't vote for the hot weather, to lose the world cup, to have pot holes in their street. All we know is that they DID vote to LEAVE the EU.

There is lots of things a dictatorship could do to make out lives more affluent. Does that mean people will always vote for it? People voted to leave the EUs 'gilded cage' because we think its a prison and we would be better off outside of it.

If you want to lock yourself up because you feel more affluent then go do that, dont force the rest of us into your cage as well. Its basic human nature.

So people say "Isn't it wonderful, I have potholes in my street.", do they? Or do they grumble about why hasn't the council fixed them, or blame policies of austerity?

So for those who lose their jobs, especially if they are good quality jobs that the likes of Airbus provide, and they can't find another of commensurate pay and they are forced to rely on foodbanks, will they tell their children, '"hey we are going without because I've lost my job, but we are OUT of the EU, being destitute is worthwhile". I doubt it somehow.

do they grumble about why hasn't the council fixed them, or blame policies of austerity?

LOL, or do they NOT understand that austerity is caused by someone spending ALL the money in piggy bank?

Perhaps they would prefer to escape the EU prison and create jobs that make aeroplanes for every country in the world. NOT just the ones the EU says they can!

I would like to see the UK make planes on its own! Those days are gone. It was possible in the 1950s still, it's not now. Or perhaps we are going to send adventurers around the world on sailing ships to rediscover an Empire. Dream on.

There used to be a few sensible Leavers on these threads, with whom one could have a proper discussion. They have been noticeable by their absence now for a good many months, to be replaced by the empty sloganisers.

Quite right peregrina. Despite the evidence to the contrary, there are still those who think there's going to be vast sums of money floating about when we leave the EU.

Tragic really.

Fangirl how about we stop Brexit , agree not to trigger art 50 for another 10 years and give the Leavers time to plan our exit from the EU properly, you never know , maybe the non existent technology required will actually be in existence by then ?

The contribution to the EU from the UK is about 0.7% of GDP. The EU is a useful 'moderator' in that it promotes spending in areas of the country that Westminster will happily ignore. When the coalmines closed the UK government did very little to help the huge numbers of people laid off get decent work and wages. The coalmines closed partly as the coal was not a particularly high quality but also lack of investment to produce machinery to get it out.
The 0.7% is only a fifth of the amount that the USA 'demands' the UK and other EU members of NATO pay towards armaments. Mr Trump has said this should go up to 4% of GDP which would be nearly 6 times as much.
The ignorance of what the EU actually does to enhance ordinary peoples lives is appalling, be it grants to improve town centres, the Human Rights legislation, workers rights, regulation of bought goods, elimination of mobile roaming charges, the list goes on.

I have to ask though Fangirl, who will Airbus sell planes to , who they don't already sell to ?

Also as we are talking about leaving one of the biggest trading blocs in the world , which other trading blocs are we going to trade with ?

Sadly Airbus in the UK only make some PARTS of planes, the wings definitely but I am not sure what else. Airbus is a consortium and only around 20 percent is in the UK. Most if not all plane parts come together in Toulouse. They are anticipating considerable expansion, their order book is full but the chances of them investing any money into the UK is getting slimmer and the Chinese, who already make some parts, are itching to take on more work.
Apparently farmers are saying that fruit and veg is going to waste NOW as there are no pickers 'available'. Maybe a thought for those on the dole who will no doubt complain the government is not handing out enough so they can sit at home.

Eurostar station in Paris to be rebuilt to prepare for Brexit border disruption

Station to triple in size as part of wider redevelopment

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-paris-gare-du-nord-eurostar-rebuilt-border-customs-checks-latest-a8444096.html

Will the UK have to pay for all these measures that other EU countries are needing to put in place ?

A special agreement, known as the Treaty of Le Touquet, currently allows for both countries’ passport checks to take place as passengers board the train – meaning when they arrive they can walk straight out of the station without waiting

But the treaty’s future is uncertain, with Brexit negotiations still up in the air and calls from Paris for it to be revisited

Travellers could also face additional checks as the UK leaves the customs union, while the EU is also pushing forward with plans to force travellers from the UK to apply for travel authorisation in advance, including paying a fee

“This is concrete evidence of the lengthy and costly delays that will be caused by Brexit,” Labour MP Gareth Thomas, a supporter of the Best For Britain campaign said.
Read more

^EU warns member states to plan for ‘no deal’ Brexit
European Parliament threatens to veto May’s Brexit plan over Ireland
May bows to EU pressure to keep UK in human rights convention
Commons suspended as Theresa May’s new Brexit plan published^

We don’t have the cash to throw around rebuilding stations – not when people in this country are struggling to feed themselves and public services like schools, hospitals and police forces are being cut

I think other EU27 are mitigating the damage at their own cost, frumpety.

No mitigation here. Just useful chaos.