Not the Brexit Arms

[bearbehind]

Since BrexitArmsLandlady says she isn't starting anymore threads here's a place to discuss Brexit developments for those that still want to.

It never ceases to amaze me what a shambles this is.

The cabinet still can't even agree what we want, let alone what we're going to get.

Brexit hasn't actually started yet and already people are losing jobs just at the thought of what might happen. The government does not have enough cash to bale everybody out.
It is like diving off the high board.
Remaining or reversal is equivalent to having a few feet of water in the pool.
Leave is only a few inches of water.
Either one scenario or the other WILL happen, and the water is gradually draining out the longer the negotiations go on.

jasjas if you think even TM is prepared to tear up the GFA you're more deluded than I thought.

jasjas, I agree, there is just no way the Tories would risk a GE. TM won't change and go for SM and CU as that would completely split the party and they can't have that. There's no one to replace her who would win a GE. and no one wants JC in power. She doesn't have to 'tear up' the GFA, just alter it a bit.

For TM to do a U turn and admit that 'Brexit' was a bad idea and we want to remain would be serious 'egg on face' but no one would die. Leaders who have 'fallen from grace' around the world go off to a quiet corner with their large pension and are forgotten about. It might hurt their ego, but nothing else.
Damaging the GFA would result in return to violence. Although it is relatively peaceful now the peace is fragile and any excuse, such as return to significant poverty in the region is likely to make it flare up.
Since it too so many years to get to the GFA agreement, changing it at all would be a non starter.

I've said it before but I'm convinced a headline in the DM announcing we've left and then just carry on as we did beforewould appease the very vast majority of people

The shift in editors at the Daily Mail could not have occurred at a more interesting time. Especially as Dacre has signalled he will not dispute Greigs decisions. I suspect Leavers are going to start to hear a lot of things they don't like.

She doesn't have to 'tear up' the GFA, just alter it a bit.

It’s a sign of what an epic mess this is that you are actually serious when you say that. Like it’s that simple

She doesn't have to 'tear up' the GFA, just alter it a bit.

With stupid like that in the room ...

….and 'stupid' departs, leaving you to your echo chamber!!!

Good luck with your hand wringing.

….and 'stupid' departs, leaving you to your echo chamber!!!

This was supposed to be your echo chamber

Anyway, hopefully there will be people who do understand the word "agreement" left ....

jasjas if you think even TM is prepared to tear up the GFA you're more deluded than I thought.

I also think the GFA will be binned. Not by design, but by accident. The GFA and a hard brexit are incomparable, there is no way around that, one of them will have to go. Sadly I think it's the GFA and the peace in NI will be another casualty of brexit.

I also think the GFA will be binned.

Has the RoI any say in that ? Or is the UK now supporting unilateral decisions in international treaties ?

Sadly I think it's the GFA and the peace in NI will be another casualty of brexit.

It won't, it will be what saves us from a disasterous Brexit.

You can't go round breaking international treaties because it suits you.

Whilst I don't entirely agree we should be beholden to something because of the threat of violence, I'm glad there's something that can stop this train crash.

Sadly, it's just going to give the Leave camp a reason to moan forever more but if it wasn't this it would be something else anyway.

Even if we left without a deal, Leavers would moan because the impending shit storm would be the EUs fault for not letting us have a deal.

Anything other than the cake and eat it option simply isn't, and has never been on Leavers radar.

It's pretty clear from recent posts that Leavers haven't budged and inch from their 'we won, you lost' mentality, even though not one of them can begin to define the next steps i.e., what winning actually looks like.

My only hope is that now some of the more fanatic Leavers are seeing that their beloved leader is not fit for the job, even after raving about how she will deliver 'the will of the people', it naturally follows they will start to see it's actually because the task is impossible.

You can't go round breaking international treaties because it suits you.

Actually, you can. The UK has always been able to do what it wants.

What you can't do, is break an international treaty - especially one that was backstopped by the UN as well as the EU - and expect not to have to face up to serious consequences. The very least of which would be sanctions ... and if Theresa May was curious what a "hostile climate" looks like, then UK citizens can report back.

This isn't the 1930s, and there's no moribund League of Nations.

It might be the absolute madness of even thinking of such unilateral action which breaks the spell ?

jasjas if you think even TM is prepared to tear up the GFA you're more deluded than I thought

No need to be rude!

Anyhow, i didnt even say that!

Incredibly optimistic to think the Government will place greater store on NI and the GFA than leaving the EU, no leaver in the cabinet gives a shit about GFA or NI.... esp after BJ comments recently and no smack down by TM.

They ll have to be some sort of infrastructure & customs officers (MaxFac) eventually they'll be attacked, someone will die and the border will have to be militarised.

I'm not being rude- I'm being realistic.

You, on the other hand, seem to think there's not. huge difference between maintaining the GFA and having a hard border betwefen NI and Ireland.

Its this distintion between fact and reality which is causes the problem here.

You're in the, 'I want it to happen so it should' club. There's no arguing with that arrogance.

There's no arguing with that arrogance

Says the person who’s been arguing with leavers for months. 😂

Ha Ha no chance, i voted remain and want us to stay IN, forget all about the last 2 years....delusional i know lol! but i will never change my mind n this, our future lies in Europe and not mid Atlantic.

BUT what i wont and never will agree with is all this batshit about hard and soft and somehow leaving but nothing changes crap.

You cannot leave the EU, become a 3rd country and still have zero border controls in NI.... TM has ruled out CU and SM and i ve explained why i believe she wont change her flipflop mind on this, she wants power above all else.

Yes, I have argued with Leavers for months, because they've not moved on from 'we won, you lost'

And now it's coming home roost.

There's no substance beyond 'we want to leave the EU so someone, amyone, needs to make it happen, no matter what the price.'

Only, if that had been on the ballot paper, you'd never have won because it's only the spoilt little rich clique that think this is a good idea now.

The problem is, that any economic effects will take time, years maybe and by that time, it ll all be too late.

The response "we won, you lost" is to be expected by any winning side, we d have been no different!.
However, prior to June 2016, how many remain or leavers had every heard of CU/SM/EFTA/EEA/EMA/EBA etc etc let alone had any idea what it all actually meant?
It was ridiculous decision by Cameron to have a vote on this subject, few were ever able to make an informed choice.

jas, that shit doesn't wash with me.

If you voted you had a duty to understand what your vote would unleash.

Those who continute to protest that their part was over and done with after they put their cross on the ballot paper disgust me.

Well that’s how i feel about it.
I voted leave and handed my vote over to politicians to deal with it.
I didn’t vote and expect to sort it all out myself!
bear you’re way too over invested in Brexit, I swear you spend more time stressing over it than anyone else in the entire world, & that includes all our politicians & every politician in Europe.

Ain't that just the problem surfer

You and your cronies think the solution will just miraculously appear.

What happens though Surfer if those politicians turn round and tell you it isn't actually possible ? That the question they asked you was a pointless one ? I mean you will be understandably miffed at having had to take time out on the day in question to stick a cross in a box, but other than that, your life will be no better or worse than before surely ?

As I said earlier, although it might have been the 'other' Brexit thread, Jeremy Paxman had 3 1 hour programmes which pretty much explained the EU involvement with the UK and with not too much extra thought or investigation you would have seen that many of the claims by both leave and remain were not strictly EU issues. Sovereignty, Immigration and funding for the NHS for example are not and were not EU issues but solely in the hands of the UK government. The fact that Corrie or whatever might have been on the telly which might have been more interesting at the time may have been a problem. Jeremy should have been on ALL channels for proper coverage.

Bearbehind By enlarge it was the elderly, the less educated and those not in paid work that voted for brexit and by some margin.

You really cannot expect leave or remain voters to somehow change the direction of travel TM and her Government have decided to go down.
All opinion polls show that the country hasn't really changed its mind. TM says it ll be all ok, so we believe her! one reason not to have a good education system, better educated folk are more questioning of authority.

We live in a democracy, so must suck up what is coming our way.