Not the Brexit Arms

[bearbehind]

Since BrexitArmsLandlady says she isn't starting anymore threads here's a place to discuss Brexit developments for those that still want to.

It never ceases to amaze me what a shambles this is.

The cabinet still can't even agree what we want, let alone what we're going to get.

OK:
Hands up all who want blue unicorns.....
Thank you.
Now:
Hands up: all who wants red unicorns.....
Hummmmm, now what?
(small voice), Does anyone know where unicorns come from?

Yet again the cabinet are fighting pointlessly over details which the EU are not going to accept.

The EU have made it quite clear a backstop is not a back stop if it has a deadline yet DD and TM are arguing the toss over this.

It's now been issued, including a deadline, so we will now be told by the EU, again, that it's not acceptable.

It's beyond ridiculous.

Be interesting to see who gets the Daily Mail job won't it , now Paul Dacre is leaving ?

I think Paul Dacre remains as Ed in Chief of Associated Newspapers, but I could be wrong about that.

So much for the changing of the Guard if I read it correctly. He may still be able to pull strings outside of his previous role in the DM.

Wonder if Remainer Geordie will get a look in ? Be interesting to see the media spin on Brexit if he does !

Even my erstwhile brexitier mate is now regreting his vote, not because he no longer wishes to leave the EU but because it is now clear we cannot in the timescales required.

One example he gave me today was the European Union Youth Orchestra, relocating ti Italy from the UK.......

How can any credible Government carry on with this shambles? its doing us all great harm.

I think the public still want it though even though they all seem to realise (at last) it's about damage limitation now, the sunlit uplands was a lie.

When the Cabinet and the Pm are at loggerheads. Well what would anyone think?

It will all be down to the JRMs of this world who will NEVER have to suffer any downfall from Brexit, but they are the arch supporters.

Does that not tell you something?

UK is a busted flush now. And the whole world knows it. You may not admit it, but it is a terrible thing to see and witness now with the indecision and infighting. All for the Tory Party, not for the populace.

And keeping May as PM for now, because no one else wants her job at the moment.

That is the tragedy really.

Power? that is long gone now.

I think the public still want it though

The public who voted for it or all the public ? there appears to be an understanding that the UK will be worse off financially post Brexit, and there are those who will tell you they knew this was going to be the case prior to the referendum

Will the public still want it if the Russia/Aaron Banks story has legs?

Or will we be in deep denial?

The numbers still wanting to go ahead with Brexit vastly out number those who want the decision reversed, even amongst those who voted remain!

TM would have known about the Banks Putin connection long ago, yet still wants to forge ahead.

I think many in the UK secretly admire Putin, so if Gove or BJ were found to be Soviet sleeper agents, it would make little difference.

But which Brexit Jas ?

As a leave voter I can't think of anyone who would admire Putin! That couldn't be further from my mind and I would be absolutely aghast if Gove or Boris were found to be Russian agents.

I think the vast majority of the population are now completely bored of Brexit and just want it to go away. It is possible that those who have never given much thought to it (which is a vast majority of the population) believe that the quickest way to achieve this is to "just get on with it" but tbh I don't think that most people care very much either way.

There is an enormous amount of head-in-sandism among even educated Remain voters - mainly I think because they feel completely powerless and disenfranchised, but partly because they are not yet directly affected. I see this very clearly at work where no one discusses Brexit at all - admittedly the division I work for is not especially EU facing compared with other divisions but even so ...

There are no longer any threads on MN about Brexit (except in this small echo chamber), nor on my Facebook except from those directly affected (mainly those affiliated with Britain in Europe), nor even much discussion among my closest friends and colleagues - all of whom are Remain voters. It's impossible to engage with my mum on this (I suspect she voted leave after a visit to her hamlet by her MP - an "ultra"), she just wants the whole thing to go away.

The idea that the majority of the population still thinks Brexit should go ahead is I think based on very simplistic opinion polling: if you ask people directly whether Brexit should happen, then I think it is understandable that many believe that there would be a democratic deficit if it didn't and will therefore say it "should" happen if they are asked this specific question in isolation. But if you were to ask broader questions about the challenges facing the UK and what government priorities should be, I doubt Brexit would get much of a look in. People want a theoretical Brexit but I see no evidence that there is any widespread appetite for an actual Brexit that costs time, money and political capital.

Even the government doesn't really want Brexit (or it would actually be buying up land at ports via compulsory purchase and tendering for the construction of border inspection posts). Tbh I don't even think that the ERG wants Brexit - for them Brexit is just a proxy for other objectives for which popular support would be far harder to gain.

I agree it's not mainstream conversation misti.

What I find incredibly frustrating is the fact the Leavers narrative has reverted back to (if it ever deviated from) 'we voted to leave so it needs to happen' despite there being no feasible way for it to actually happen.

It's like a petulant child stamping his feet and shouting 'I want, I want, I want'

If you want it so badly, maybe you should have put more thought into how it could physically happen.

I've said it before but I'm convinced a headline in the DM announcing we've left and then just carry on as we did beforewould appease the very vast majority of people.

*But which Brexit Jas^

Doesn't matter!
Brexit means only one thing, leaving the EU!
hard or soft is really only about future trade, the EBA, EMA or the Youth Orchestra are not going to return to the UK, we will not be represented in Brussels and whatever happens we ll be a rule taker only, all a soft brexit means is we ll be part of a few EU bodies, paying in but no say... it is inconceivable that May will keep us in the SM and/or CU after all her denials to the contrary, it would spilt the Government and we d be in GE territory.

I ve said all along that unless a major car maker or similar leaves the UK costing 10s of 1000s of jobs, citing brexit as the reason, then nothing really will change.

It is inconceivable that May will keep us in the SM and/or CU after all her denials to the contrary

😂😂😂😂😂

You've not followed TMs track record on u-turning on things she's repeatedly denied then jas

The u-turn on SM/CU is imminent- there's simply no other choice.

I've said it before but I'm convinced a headline in the DM announcing we've left and then just carry on as we did beforewould appease the very vast majority of people

100% agree.
The vast majority of us won’t even notice we’ve left, & that includes the die hard remainers of mumsnet - which makes me wonder why you’re so bitter & angry about leaving? Your life will carry on exactly as before.
So, the real reason remainers are angry is nothing to do with leaving or remaining, it’s all to do with the fact that they lost.

Basic human nature.
You lost to the plebs and you just can’t handle it.
Hence months of moaning, whinging, foot stomping, ‘it’s sooooooo unfair’ pathetic whining.

Grow up.

Since the car makers and many other bits of industry are so reliant on JIT for deliveries ANY messing about with customs and borders would put them out of business, or in reality they will relocate.
The Mini (car) is produced at a rate of about one a minute. This won't happen if the supplies of ANY parts are held up.
Hitting the wall is going to happen, and in financial terms already is happening, the choice now is how hard will it get.

surfer, as usual you've totally missed the point.

Leaving the EU will detrimentally affect nearly everyone in the UK.

Not leaving will hardly be noticed by most people.

How can you not understand that basic concept?

How can you claim 'the vast majority of us won't even notice we've left' when it's clear there would have to be huge changes to facilitate leaving in anything other than just name.

If it was true that Leaving would make no difference to people, why hasn't it happened?

Why can't we even get past first base on the negiotiations?

It astounds me how ridiculously blinkered Leavers continue to be.

I never expected it to be easy, did you?
Untangling 50 years of ties was never going to be done & dusted in 12 months, so you’re the blinkered one.
It’s a divorce, & a very complicated hostile one. The EU ( like the lover scorned ) wants revenge & nothing to go right for us, they’re acting like a spiteful husband with the ‘I’ll show her’ attitude.

Fuck em - we should just walk away now and tell them to stick their negotiators up their arse.

@surferjet.
Not quite as you say. Crashing out and hoping to get great deals from other countries, better than we were getting through membership of the EU will be a nasty blast of cold reality to most in the UK, felt immediately. Everything will get expensive, even if panic buying and jammed ports doesn't happen. The concept of loads of great trade deals can't happen as the already emerging markets overseas already have well worked out supply chains and have a track record of growth.
Remaining will still have a significant cost. Some companies have already moved abroad and others may well do as they have seen how fickle the UK government has been, there will be a cost to this financially and a lack of trust for the future.

Fuck em - we should just walk away now and tell them to stick their negotiators up their arse

As I said, a petulant child who can't get their own way.

That is never going to happen.

Leaving needs a meticulous plan not just a bit of wishful thinking from a group of people who think it's big and clever to tell the EU to 'stick up up their arse'

54321go

Remainers have been declaring armageddon since the day after the referendum to be fair.
We’re still here.

@bearbehind
What i said that if she did do one of her famous u-turns, then we are in GE territory, which is why she wont do it, the Tories will not risk it again and there is frankly not enough time.

I do not believe we ll be in any sort of CU let alone the SM., Suferjet is correct in this, the direction of travel with the government is that brexit back benchers far out number the rebels, the IRA are distant history and TM will carry out the Will of the People, come what may! remaining in power is all TM cares about.