The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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Ever closer to Brexit! 🥂 🍻 🍾

Remainers are welcome, as ever.

But!

If you just want to abuse Brexiteers, then start your own thread.

This is a pub thread, not an interrogate-a-Brexiteer thread

We have more in common etc, even if Brexit divides us.

Eh?

An agreement is between two or more parties...
The EU don't like what they are being offered... also the EU need to vote as well.... it's not just us cherry picking.

I think your assertion that if we have restrictions for others that we will discriminate as most immigrants will be white is completely flawed. Can't say I remember many white nurses and doctors coming from the commonwealth pre EU

We should not be encouraging nurses and doctors plus other skilled workers to come from developing countries to one of the worlds richest nations, its immoral.
We used to train far more of our own skilled work force, business and gov decided to import workers, nothing to do with the EU/EEC.

mummmy you really do have a skewed view of things.

The EU aren't being 'offered' anything.

They are confirming what the rules of the game are.

Every one of our so called red lines is falling by the wayside. Yet you're still convinced we're in the driving seat.

No . I think we don't have a hope in hell of getting an agreement.... that can be lived with....

jasjas, I agree with you that we should be training more of our own workers but the FOM situation has distorted that in that employers can employ fully qualified people for minimum wage rather than invest in training.
I wasn't suggesting we should get more qualified people from developing countries but trying to explain my assertion that we would get people of loads of ethnicities if we opened our immigration policy to all.

We will get whatever scraps we're offered and we won't be able to do anything about it because no deal is not an option.

It's actually much more likely that a lack of acceptable deal will lead to A50 being revoked that it is to no deal.

Doubletrouble99... When my Mum had her stroke, she was treated by a Nigerian Nurse, Syrian stroke specialist, an Israeli Doctor, Irish/Greek and Spanish nurses as well as British medics, there is absolutely loads of diversity in the UK and this is the S/W.

No skilled worker from the EU or anywhere else is being legally employed on min wage to do a skilled job, that is a total myth.

The Government has allowed vocational training to almost disappear and could have easily have allowed tax breaks for businesses to train our own work force but they didnt, indeed introduced fees for UK nurses studying here :(

and you know what? post brexit, it wont change.

The HOL are acting like grown ups ( in amongst the bickering ) by looking out for the best interests of the people of the UK and voting accordingly and requiring that our sovereign Parliament has the right ( as they should ) to vote on any crucial Brexit related issues facing the country.

jasjas - What are you talking about? 'no skilled worker is being legally employed on minimum wage' There's no law that says what any person should be paid bar the min. wage.

Doubletrouble99
My company employs many skilled foreign workers, they are within exactly the same pay bands as we are - private sector.
A skilled foreign worker, doing a skilled job will be paid the same as his English counter part, give or take.
Of course a skilled worker picking veg will be on min wage, just as a uk employee would be.
Or do you think the Syrian stroke consultant i referred to earlier is on min wage?
It does sound like you ve been reading the Mail slightly too avidly.

jasjas, I don't think you get it. In industries like the building trade they employ people on a very piece meal basis, from project to project. They company will offer the lowest hourly rate they can get away with and have plenty of applicants from EU countries who can afford to take the rate offered as it's better than the one they are on at home.

The builders i know and we ve plenty down here, dont do that.
In any case, you stated that skilled EU workers get paid min wage.... you ve now narrowed that down to one industry! and prob just one small bit of it.
also, everyone i know who is construction is snowed under with work, esp as the Government is building many more homes and the boom in house extensions instead of moves.
Regardless, how would recruiting across the globe solve this problem?

I am a conservative but if the tories sell my Brexit vote down the river I shan’t vote for them again.

Which leaves loony labour, fantasy greens or some odd outfit called the Lib Dem’s.

jasjas - I gave the building industry as an example as they use many trades of which we don't have enough because they are not training enough young people up. There are plenty of other industries such as haulage and distribution where this happens too.

Heyduggees

Not quite sure what you mean by "selling my Brexit vote down the river", but how do you feel about being politically disenfranchised? You won't vote for the Tories and don't appear too enamoured of loony Labour, fantasy Greens or odd Lib Dems. What does that leave for your vote - UKIP? SWP? Lord Buckethead?

This is a serious question. Who do people vote for when no party reflects their views (particularly on a catch-all issue like Brexit) or they feel their usual vote-harvester has sold them down the river? Does everyone just subside into apathy and pull the duvet over their heads?

It is a conundrum though isn't it , lack of skilled labour due to Government policy , skilled labour sought from abroad. If we stop anyone entering the UK and send everyone home who has arrived recently to do these jobs , then you have to ask , who will do these jobs ?
The same question applies for seasonal jobs , who will do these jobs with long hours and no job security, on the minimum wage that they pay ?

Doubletrouble99 how many of the 2.3m EU workers here are on min wage zero hour contracts? they make up 7% of the work force.
Sure there may be problems but leaving the EU is nt going to solve them, as there will still be nothing to prevent employers not training UK workers and employing non EU workers (currently 1.2million here working)

If we had a contributory benefits system (as almost all euro countries do) then foreign workers would nt be entitled to such generous in work benefits (allowing employers to drive down wages in SOME industries) and the UK would not be the draw it is to overseas workers.

But once again, easy to blame the EU for UK problems.

Still here too, just got fed up with the them & us mentality of these threads.

👋👋

They cant sell any vote down the river.

They are very very aware of the mood of the UK and the Ref vote.

the Lords doing this is only highlighting how much THEY are long over due down grading

If we had a contributory benefits system (as almost all euro countries do) then foreign workers would nt be entitled to such generous in work benefits (allowing employers to drive down wages in SOME industries) and the UK would not be the draw it is to overseas workers

and yet we have been told over and over again that its the same across the EU its all fair - people in Spain - France - Germany get the same etc.

its pretty obvious to me that the UK itself cannot cope with being in the EU we cannot organised ourselves for it - we have not organised ourselves for the huge wave of immigration we had - we did not do things fairly for anyone, we the UK cannot work within eu perimeters.

the Lords doing this is only highlighting how much THEY are long over due down grading

Funny that Brexiters like Fox shout about “thwarting the will of the people” when the HoL want Parliament to have the final say on any deal with the EU and not just government ministers, but so many leavers claim they wanted “sovereignty” when they voted to leave.

Yep, it's the Lords who are trying to make sure that our sovereign parliament Take Back Control (TM). I don't recall the UKIP slogan of "let Teresa May become a dictator"...