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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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DrivenToDespair · 28/03/2018 05:58

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/03/2018 06:23

Driven - these newspaper articles about fish drive me potty. The focus is on who bought the rights. That is irrelevant. You are correct the key thing is who sold them.

My understanding of the quotas from googling ( I think I am actually addicted to googling) is of course that the UK government allocates their share of EU quota domestically.

It's always the U.K. government.

So the U.K. Gov then effectively privatised it and allocated he vast majority of rights to a small minority of large vessel owners.

Smaller fishing boats (under 10 metres ), which were around 75% of the UK fishing fleet, were only given 4% of fishing rights and if they wanted more had to lease them from the larger owners.

So I think it’s the owners who have sold the rights on presumably with U.K. ( Defra) permission.

http://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/articles/selling-silver-enclosure-uks-fisheries

http://nffo.org.uk/eu-referendum/2016/05/09/fisheries-facts-not-fantasy

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-sea-fisheries-annual-statistics-report-2014

JanettheNotebookJunkie · 28/03/2018 06:26

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EmilyAlice · 28/03/2018 07:22

Reflecting on the CA stuff from yesterday, I don’t think it will stop Brexit at the moment, but I do think that if/when the tide turns it will help to give people a way back from their bad decision.
“Oh well, we would never have voted for it if we had known all that.....”

FirstHouseThenStreet · 28/03/2018 07:38

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lonelyplanetmum · 28/03/2018 07:43

it will help give people a way to back from their bad decision.

Agreed. Cataclysmic decision rather than just bad though.

Watching Wylie’s evidence to that select committee has done my head in. And I know it’s really non pc of me, but I am old now, and I wish he didn’t have pink hair. This is all so very serious and pink hair somehow detracts from the seriousness.

I keep thinking about dodgy Aaron Banks and his companies and all his funding of the Leave campaign.

The Cambridge Analytica stuff would have been much harder to fund if it hadn’t been for Banks’ money.

Also if you were writing this as fiction and you had to pick a nationality for his wife, you'd pick Russian wouldn't you? The material for authors is endless. For the next decades we will have crime type fiction involving data abuse, abuse of power, coups, control etc.

Cambridge Analytica's role in elections around the world (including here,Trump,Nigeria, Kenya, the Czech Republic, Sri Lanka, Malta,Argentina) and their boasts about honey traps etc generates dystopian levels of disturbance.

We clearly need a complete ban on any psychographic profiling etc in elections if not targeting consumers too really.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 28/03/2018 07:44

Mike Stuchbery 💀🍷
@MikeStuchbery_
Generation Identity members are distributing meals to the homeless in London. A couple of things to note. Look at the branding - where's the funding coming from? Secondly, 'warm pork meals'. Think about it. Contemptible.

The Far Right has been using homeless outreach as a tactic for years. It allows them to recruit the vulnerable, while softening their image.

It fits neatly into GI's strategy of 'actions', designed to give them attention, and to normalize racism.

Exclusive: Neo-Nazis Are Using a White-Only Homeless Charity to Spread Race Hate
National Action are exploiting homeless people for propaganda.
www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/xdm3xd/neo-nazis-homeless-outreach-race-hate

If you want to completely Godwin this shit, the Nazis used soup kitchens, both in the early days in bringing recruits into the SA, and later in building up their electoral profile.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 07:55

David C Bannerman @ DCBMEP
‘If no deal the EU will be insolvent’ as EU has no power to borrow says @JacobReesMogg - powerful point. ‘What plans are EU making for no deal?’ - this is not a one way street @LeaveMnsLeave

Ya wat?

The lies they keep on comin'

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Peregrina · 28/03/2018 08:03

Re fishing - I read in the comments of the FT after one of the fishing articles, that the owners of the smaller boats, sold up and retired and the Spaniards bought them. Furthermore, despite high youth unemployment, the young don't want to work on the boats, so they are mostly crewed by Latin Americans. I don't know how true all this is, but it seemed possible.

Peregrina · 28/03/2018 08:06

The last bit about the Latin Americans crewing the boat was in answer to the 'whataboutery'. 'Look at the youth unemployment in the southern parts of the EU' i.e. "that's my excuse for being against the EU." Answer, like UK people not wanting fruit picking jobs, it's not quite as simple as that.

TheElementsSong · 28/03/2018 08:06

The lies they keep on comin'

The latest iteration of "They need us more than we need them" for the consumption of the faithful, who will instantly forget the previous version of the lie, and insist that this particular version is the one they meant all along.

Kofa · 28/03/2018 08:09

Kanto which has links to CA has been hired by the pro-life Save the 8th campaign in Ireland ahead of the abortion referendum in May. CA and associates have perfected their model and are rolling it out globally. This is profoundly disturbing and worrying for democracy everywhere.
www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-abortion-fake-news-firestorm-heading-our-way-1.3440927?mode=amp

Motheroffourdragons · 28/03/2018 08:10

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 28/03/2018 08:11

Did I read yesterday that starmer is now advocating for an alternative option to no deal should the government vote against the eventual cobbled together deal?

Peregrina · 28/03/2018 08:23

Again on the subject of fish - why don't we take a leaf out of the Leavers book with their attitude to the GFA i.e. it doesn't suit us, so tear up the treaty. Why not break the fishing contracts, impound the boats if they put into UK ports, because they should be ours! Grin Grin

DrivenToDespair · 28/03/2018 08:31

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 28/03/2018 08:44

Rees mogg has been dog whistling loudly with his talk of the poor indigenous people of Britain. Very bannon-esque

FirstHouseThenStreet · 28/03/2018 08:44

PainInTheEar That's despicable, I actually feel physically sick reading that. What does the logo stand for?

Motheroffourdragons · 28/03/2018 08:52

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 28/03/2018 08:57

I think the drawing attention to it was to highlight this must be a fairly well funded operation as the packaging/branding are quite polished. I’m not sure what the logo actually stands for

FirstHouseThenStreet · 28/03/2018 09:05

The logo looks menacing, to say the least.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 28/03/2018 09:27

It’s quite gilead-like, I thought

frumpety · 28/03/2018 09:28

WRT the Havering leaflet :

Under the Public Order Act 1986, it is an offence to publish or distribute threatening, abusive or insulting material that is intended to stir up racial hatred or which is likely to stir up racial hatred.

That is clearly printed in The Electoral Commission bumpf for Parish and Community Council elections for England and Wales. I would imagine it is the same for District, borough, county or county borough and unitary council elections or mayoral elections.

AgnesSkinner · 28/03/2018 09:36

From Twitter: French firm releases preview of Blue British Passport.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?