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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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SwedishEdith · 02/04/2018 17:16

Spoilsport Wink Yes, there's a DM link out there with all the gruesome details.

RedToothBrush · 02/04/2018 19:59

Here we are. Right on cue:

Leave.Eu @ officialleaveeu
Labour know exactly how to sort out a crisis and get back in touch with the base.

Eddie Izzard: working class hero.

We think not 🤣

And here's an article in the independent saying its transphobic.

www.indy100.com/article/brexit-leave-eu-offensive-tweet-eddie-izzard-david-lammy-racist-8284826?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Controversial pro-Brexit group tweet 'vile' image mocking Eddie Izzard

Yes it is. In part. But its not simply a comment about trans. To dismiss it as merely transphobic, is to make one of the fatal flaws of the referendum and just dismiss everything as nothing more than racism.

This is the far right, trying to point out the middle class 'liberal' blindness and lack of self awareness in order to win support.

Izzard is a gift to the far right.

The way he presents himself, adds to effect, but its only an additional factor to an underlying issue.

During the referendum Izzard and Geldof provoked the response of some hardcore remainers uttering that the pair had the effect of making them want to vote leave.

Their campaigning was so utterly cringeworthy and painful to watch even if you were on the same side.

Note: not just Izzard. Those comments related to the way in which they spoke to others which was in a manner that got people's backs up, and smacked of arrogance and privilege.

Expect much more like this.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
OP posts:
prettybird · 02/04/2018 20:17

Eddie Izzard had a similar effect during the Indyref, coming up to Scotland to mansplain (transplain?) to the Scots why we needed to stay in the UK (which included he'd be upset if we left Confused).

If only the Better Together Campaign had used him more Wink

woman11017 · 02/04/2018 20:20

Izzard What are they thinking. Idiotic for labour, hopeless for remain too.

thecatfromjapan · 02/04/2018 20:36

Well, he did well in the vote and was therefore second in line.

I think New New Labour are learning, the very, very hard way, why New Labour were so tough with their media control ('spin'). And people are also learning the same thing.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2018 00:45

Australia is preparing to demand that Britain accepts hormone-treated beef as the price of a symbolic early Brexit trade deal.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/australia-to-demand-britain-accepts-hormonetreated-beef-htwf9xxsb

Liam Fox has identified a deal with Australia as an early “win” and informal discussions have been taking place for the past 18 months.
But in return, Britain will be told to scrap a European Union ban on the sale of meat from cattle treated with growth hormones.
< is Fox so desperate to get any "early win", that he would agree ? Worrying to see the concessions other countries are demanding from a desperate Fox / UK >

The practice can increase their weight gain by more than 10 per cent a day, cutting the time it takes to fatten the animals for market.
The EU claims that at least one of the hormones used is carcinogenic and their use has been banned

mathanxiety · 03/04/2018 04:47

Bang goes the invisible and frictionless NI border then.

MOnsterMOuse · 03/04/2018 08:22

How classy of Corbyn to celebrate passover with Jewdas. Hmm

This is a far-Left group that has called for the destruction of Israel and that has dismissed claims that Corbyn has a problem with anti-semitism in his party as a ‘bout of faux-outrage’ and ‘the work of cynical manipulations by people whose express loyalty is to the Conservative Party and the right wing of the Labour Party’.

Jewdas members during the passover event were recorded booing the name of the President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews and said that the editor of the Jewish Chronicle newspaper Stephen Pollard is a ‘non-Jew’. How mature.

I am so angry at this Angry. Corbyn's provocative attendance at this fringe group's passover event as well as appointing the ridiculous Eddie Izzard in response to the anti-semitism scandal makes me think that he is openly trolling anyone who is not part of his extremist socialist Labour agenda. A self satisfied and callous fanatic.

HesterThrale · 03/04/2018 08:27

The gloves are off! As 266,000 sign our petition the UK firm that lost the blue passport contract slaps down French rival - as IS set to appeal

Daily Mail headline. Sigh.

So every time there's a Brexit development that's not red-white-and-blue, are the government going to have to deal with DM readers who are not getting what they wanted/were promised?
This whole thing is going to grind to a halt and/or bankrupt the country...

AgnesSkinner · 03/04/2018 08:39

The gloves are off! As 266,000 sign our petition the UK firm that lost the blue passport contract slaps down French rival - as IS set to appeal

So much for “global Britain”. Hmm

And as it turns out, De La Rue (which currently prints passports for 40 different countries, so any argument for keeping it in-country is hypocritical to say the least) won the contract in 2009 under a cloud:

According to the Daily Mail, 3M is "furious that its bid was rejected" and is considering taking legal action over a potential conflict of interest surrounding the civil servant Gill Rider.

Rider, who is Cabinet Office director general of leadership and people strategy, directs the hiring of senior civil servants and hired two former colleagues to the Identity and Passport Service, according to the report. She also sat on the board of De La Rue until February this year, the paper said.

De La Rue maintained that while Rider sat on the board, she "did not participate in discussions about the bid".

www.printweek.com/print-week/news/1120973/3m-considering-legal-action-400m-passport-contract

DGRossetti · 03/04/2018 09:55

Mixing things up a bit, and underscoring the fact we only have one planet, interesting news that China is planning to use an area the size of Spain to harvest rainwater.

www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2138866/china-needs-more-water-so-its-building-rain-making-network-three

China is testing cutting-edge defence technology to develop a powerful yet relatively low-cost weather modification system to bring substantially more rain to the Tibetan plateau, Asia’s biggest freshwater reserve.

(contd)

Now, I know experts are probably out of fashion, but it might be worth listening to the ones that will tell you that the Earths fresh water supply is finite. Which means if you start storing it in one place, there's a lot less to go around.

The idea of wars being fought over water in the 21st century is not a new thing.

woman11017 · 03/04/2018 10:00

@BLazarus1
Thread/ Pt1: Some thoughts on the Jewdas thing: Jews have always been a broad-church. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous. The foundation of Judaism is debating and questioning well, pretty much everything. That is a beautiful thing. May it never change.
pt2: Remember the old Jewish joke of a Jewish sailor shipwrecked on a desert island who built synagogues. When rescued, he was asked: Why he build two synagogues? He replied: "Oh that other one...I would NEVER go there!" Well, for some Jews, they would never go there with
pt3... and for the Jewdas lot, well, they would never go with the Board of Deputies and other mainstream Jewish groups. Who is more Jewish? That isn’t for anyone to say. It is a personal thing to each and every individual. Just because they don’t like the state of Israel...
pt4. doesn’t mean they don’t have a right to hold a Seder. Now, looking at tweets of various members of this group who attended the Seder, some Jews clearly feel at home there. Great. Good for them. Who am I to judge a group of Jews celebrating a Seder together?
pt5. That is a beautiful thing. Corbyn is free to break bread with them if he likes, too. It is hardly surprising that these are the Jews - anarchist, socialist and rebellious - are the ones who he keeps company with. Though was it politically-wise to spend time with a group...
pt6. who have dismissed allegations in Labour as a smear against him? No, obviously not. Corbyn won’t be able to wash away the accusations of being tolerant of Jew-hatred until he shows the same respect he bestows this group on other Jewish, more mainstream groups.
pt7. He should make it clear he wanted to enjoy a Seder with friends - but that he does not agree with the witch-hunt smear. And he must show the same respect to other Jewish bodies to show that he is taking the matter of anti-Semitism seriously.
pt8. Do I think he was trolling the Jewish community? No. He isn’t bright enough to do that. I just can't get on board for beating him up for being at a Seder dinner with observant Jews who are anti-Zionists. At most Seder tables, they’ll be some in that camp.
pt9. Last point: There is something intensely irritating about people who defended recent Soros splashes that were laced in the imagery and language of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion now attacking Jewdas for being anti-Zionists - and for mocking Jewish community figures.
pt10. Last, last point: Those who are shocked that Jews are rude about other Jews in their community have clearly never sat at a Jewish family dinner - or spent time with many Jews. Remember the old Jewish joke: The anti-semite thinks Jews are a stain on humanity and an appalling
pt11. race. But that Cohen, well he ain’t so bad and Kushner, well, he is alright, too. The Jew thinks his people are righteous and a light unto nations… but Cohen… CAN’T STAND HIM! And Kushner, Oy vey what a SCHMUCK!

Mistigri · 03/04/2018 11:07

Isn't it fundamentally antisemitic to think that all Jews are required to share the same beliefs, and that Corbyn should only associate with the "good" Jews?

I'm no Labour Party apologist, but fucking hell, some supposed liberals are really tying themselves in knots over this!

woman11017 · 03/04/2018 11:46

I agree misti all getting a bit silly now.

DGRossetti · 03/04/2018 11:50

If nothing else, it's just reinforcing my desire for a secular state.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2018 11:52

Corbyn could have gone to a wide variety of Jewish groups that don't call for the destruction of Israel
The group he chose is about as typical of Jews as the BNP is of British non-Jews

Whenever he acts on a subject related to Jews or Israel, he chooses the course of action that most Jews would find threatening.

This is like his chum Livingstone choosing to quote one particular Jewish writer with a very very minority view re the Holocaust - and noone mainstream.
He and Corbyn makes similar decisions, every time there is a decision, to go into a particular direction

It's not tying oneself in knots to think JC is saying what he is, saying what he wishes the Labour Party to fully become.

Indeed, it is those who want rid of the Tories - at any price - tying themselves in knots to defend the leader of the only party who can do this.

With the current furore over anti-semitism, this is a (yet another) deliberate insult

  • unless he is such an incompetent idiot as not to realise this is the worst possible time to do this, in which case he is not safe around sharp objects and should resign immediately.
TomRavenscroft · 03/04/2018 11:53

math, 'Bang goes the invisible and frictionless NI border then.'

Can I ask, what is this in response to/context of?

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 03/04/2018 11:54

misti completely agree judging by what I've seen on it this morning.

Mistigri · 03/04/2018 11:58

I don't disagree that it was politically unwise of Corbyn. That doesn't negate the fact that the criticism comes from what is essentially an antisemitic viewpoint.

What it comes down to is non-Jews designating certain groups of Jews as an "out group" on the basis of their beliefs about the state of Israel.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2018 11:59

DG There have been disputes between Indian states of water rights that have resulted in violence that seems officially sanctioned.

I used to occasionally work with a tech centre in India, iirc near Mombai, and a few times they had a couple of days during which the entire centre had to stay home because of this:

The division of water between their state and a neighbouring state led to uniformed armed civil guards (I don't know what they are called) shooting at each other.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2018 12:02

Misti non-Jews taking their lead from angry Jewish groups who seem mainstream
JC has hastened the loss of Jewish Labour votes, which has caused the loss , or not gaining, key seats.

iirc, it was the NS who calculated that if Labour had kept the Jewish vote it used to have, then Labour would be in govt, not the Tories

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2018 12:06

tom NI border comment was right after my 01:45 quote about the hormone-ridden beef that Oz want to export to the UK, for Liam Fox's "quick win" trade deal.

It would be a quick win for Oz and for Fox, but not for the UK

Consequences are, apart from Brits eating lower quality meat, that the EU would slam down tight its external borders, since they ban those hormones in meat due to possible cancer risk

Mistigri · 03/04/2018 12:12

I have no problem with the idea that some Jewish groups are pissed off with Corbyn (there is ample justification) nor that Jewish groups have major political differences, which they are free to express.

OTOH I have a big problem with the idea that non-Jews get to decree which Jews are good and which are bad. How should we make sure we know which are the bad ones? maybe they could get a special badge or a tattoo or something.

TomRavenscroft · 03/04/2018 12:13

Thanks, BigChoc. I didn't know the thing about the EU tightening external borders in these circumstances.

Fun and games.

Icantreachthepretzels · 03/04/2018 12:23

Consequences are, apart from Brits eating lower quality meat, that the EU would slam down tight its external borders, since they ban those hormones in meat due to possible cancer risk

It's like they can't keep two competing thoughts in their head at one time isn't it? On the (rare) occasion they think about the NI border they forget all their glorious trade deals with countries with lower safety standards... and when they're out trying to trade they forget about NI (and Gibraltar? what would be the fall out there?) in their rush to accept cancerous hormone ridden beef.

And if they're planning on flooding the market with low quality carcinogenic food, whilst paring back the NHS and removing us from eurotom... are they actually just going for a cull and have decided that increased cancer is less obviously a genocide than other means?

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