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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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Thread gallery
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RedToothBrush · 30/03/2018 17:30

Czech Republic you say. Who was it who was doing dodgy dealings in Prague?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/at-height-of-russia-tensions-trump-campaign-chairman-manafort-met-with-business-associate-from-ukraine/2017/06/18/6ab8485c-4c5d-11e7-a186-60c031eab644_story.html
Would that be Manafort by chance?

Manafort spokesman Jason Maloni said that Kilimnik was a "longtime business associate" who would have naturally been in touch with Manafort. Manafort told Politico, which first reported his relationship with Kilimnik, that his conversations included discussions about the cyberattack on the Democratic National Committee and the release of its emails.

Oh DNC emails too?

Prague, prague ?

Where else did I hear about Prague. Oh yeah Louise Mensch did a lot of prattling about Prague and General Flynn. Mad as a box of frogs but:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-lawyer-delivered-michael-flynn-plan-to-lift-sanctions-on-russia-2017-2
Report: Trump's lawyer hand-delivered Michael Flynn a secret plan to lift sanctions on Russia

President Donald Trump's personal counsel, Michael Cohen, hand-delivered a "peace" plan for Russia and Ukraine to former national security adviser Michael Flynn before Flynn was asked to resign, the New York Times reported on Sunday.

The plan involved lifting sanctions on Russia in return for Moscow withdrawing its support for pro-Russia separatists in eastern Ukraine. It would also allow Russia to maintain control over Crimea, which it annexed in 2014.

Cohen. He's cropped up before too hasn't he? Oh yeah its all explained in the article.

The memos, compiled by former British spy Christopher Steele for an opposition research firm in Washington, DC, said that Cohen was part of the "ongoing secret liaison relationship between the New York tycoon's campaign and the Russian leadership," and that he met secretly with Kremlin officials in Prague in August 2016.

British Intelligence regard Steele as credible remember...

...and there's speculation he got info, from serving British Intelligence.

WTF is going on? What information did the British government give to other EU leaders to persuade them to expel diplomats? And to force the US to do the same, without so much as a whimper about how Russia wasn't that bad?

The rumour about Christopher Steele being linked to Skripal started a couple of weeks ago:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/07/poisoned-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-close-consultant-linked/amp/
Poisoned Russian spy Sergei Skripal was close to consultant who was linked to the Trump dossier

Yeah fine, yet another piece of disinformation and conspiracy theory. This is bullshit right?

Then this appeared yesterday:
www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-ex-spy-says-he-was-kremlin-hit-list-along-n860641
Russian ex-spy says he was on Kremlin 'hit list' along with poisoned Skripal
"Something is probably going to happen," Boris Karpichkov says his old friend told him. "It's very serious, and you are not alone."

Ok, now this is starting to smell a bit.

Particularly combined with all the other little pieces of information creeping out this week. You'd be forgiven for thinking there was a major international intelligence operation going on, in relation to the Trump investigation wouldn't you?

Assange's wifi switched off and the extradition too in the same week?

Accusations of tin foil hat wearing, might begin to look rather unkind. Just might.

This could all be pure coincidence and wishful thinking of course. But boy are those coincidences stacking up...

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RedToothBrush · 30/03/2018 17:38

ANYWAY...

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/30/jeremy-corbyn-tony-blair?CMP=share_btn_tw
Corbyn and Blair: are they really so very different?
Marina Hyde

Apparently this article has set a cat amongst the pigeons. Marina said this about the reaction:
twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/979729335673327616

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RedToothBrush · 30/03/2018 17:50

Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
Notable that Labour / Momentum’s Christine Shawcroft appears to believe that further training is the right remedy for Alan Bull

More on just how well Labour’s diversity training is going in tonight’s Times...

This weekend's Sun and Times both shaping up to be a slow motion car crash, you can't take your eyes off and feel guilty for watching or wondering who caused the accident.

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BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2018 18:00

The kind of trade deals the UK can look forward too … Sad
< even if Fox were competent - which is a wild fantasy in itself >

China:
Blair's recent speech highlighted that the Swiss-China FTA has little on services and gives China immediately tariff-free access to Switzerland - but makes the Swiss wait 15 years to have tariff-free access.

US:
Now the US has renegotiated its deal with SKorea, using the threat of steel sanctions and is allowed to export more cars that don't fulfil Korea's standards on safety or the environment

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/27/trump-south-korea-trade-deal-488708

"The changes to the KORUS agreement include a provision that will double to 50,000 the number of cars
each U.S. manufacturer can export to South Korea without having to meet the country’s more stringent safety standards."
< EACH manufacturer, so that's 200k if it's just the Big Four, even more if the smaller US firms come in >

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/03/2018 18:04

Greg Walters
@GSW__
Latest: Congressional investigators are probing the relationship between Manafort, his right hand man in Kiev, and a Russian billionaire. And a private jet's flight from Moscow to Newark, NJ, at the height of the campaign, has caught their attention.

news.vice.com/en_us/article/paxkpb/paul-manafort-a-mysterious-russian-jet-and-a-secret-meeting

RedToothBrush · 30/03/2018 18:06

Oh yeah, in case you haven't seen this particular article in relation to how it involves British Intelligence

www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/us/politics/how-fbi-russia-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html
How the Russia Inquiry Began: A Campaign Aide, Drinks and Talk of Political Dirt

Always back to London isn't it?

The whole investigation, keeps coming back to British Intelligence. Odd. Most Odd.

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BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2018 18:07

With so much going on, I missed this until Martina's article:

Chris Mullin tweet: “Sorry to see Jewish leaders ganging up on Corbyn.” Confused

RedToothBrush · 30/03/2018 18:08

I think I need a strong drink. Alcoholic naturally.
And a quiet lie down.

I feel like I'm losing the plot.

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mrsreynolds · 30/03/2018 18:10

I'm eating my body weight in biscuits red
Prob be handy for the coming apocolypse....

woman11017 · 30/03/2018 18:21

You'd be forgiven for thinking there was a major international intelligence operation going on, in relation to the Trump investigation wouldn't you
something is afoot.

I'm eating my body weight in biscuits red Grin
I'm pretty much a vegetarian, but am eating meat while it's available atm.
Gin MrsR and red

‏The clip attached to this tweet is revealing. Honest talk. So refreshing.
Nog één jaar tot de brexit: 'Ze hebben geen idee
only a year till brexit they have no idea.'
@WernerT_Man
#NBCCBrexitForum Dutch Minister for Foreign Trade @SigridKaag & Hans de Boer @VNONCW “The British have no clue. UK economic and political realities collide. Therefore business has to prepare4 the worst Brexit scenario @NBCCnluk @RVOIntOnd @mkbnl @MinBZ

mrsreynolds · 30/03/2018 18:25

Cheers woman 🍸

RedToothBrush · 30/03/2018 18:28

www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/adam-ramsay/cambridge-analytica-is-what-happens-when-you-privatise-military-propaganda
Cambridge Analytica is what happens when you privatise military propaganda

This. This is definitely worth a read.

Mind blown? If not yet, go back and rewatch Adam Curtis's Bitter Lake on iplayer and see if what's going on now, really starts to hurt your head.

Alcohol. Masses of Alcohol. Now.

Gin
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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/03/2018 18:45

US grassing up

Roger Stone: Sam Nunberg a ‘Lying A**hole’ and ‘Psycho’

amp.thedailybeast.com/roger-stone-sam-nunberg-is-a-lying-asshole-and-psycho

RedToothBrush · 30/03/2018 18:47

Tom Parfitt @parfitt_tom (Times Moscow Correspondent)
Aeroflot confirms it has plane being inspected at Heathrow. Russian embassy in London says it is sending representatives to the scene. Russian foreign ministry says it is “inadmissible, dangerous irresponsible” and cd be "provocation" by UK to save reputation over Skripal affair.

Aeroflot, in case you are not aware, is rumoured to be a front for Russian intelligence...

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BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2018 18:48

Naw, booze buggers up your liver

Bugger up your pancreas instead, with Chocolate - and you won't have a sore head in the morning

< Lindt, luvverly Lindt … > Managers gave us each a Lindt choc Easter bunny Smile

woman11017 · 30/03/2018 18:51

Great article there. Bell Pottinger is going to be on the radar more soon.
Brexit is Psy Ops War all right
This thread has more about Bell Pottinger
twitter.com/traciemac_Bmore/status/978681799143575557

mrsreynolds · 30/03/2018 18:51

Mmmm....lindt....nice 🍫

I daren't look at the links. Nope. That way madness lies...

woman11017 · 30/03/2018 18:52

Managers gave us each a Lindt choc Easter bunny Smile
Think I will invest in one for myself. BCF

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2018 18:55

If Mueller gets just a bit further and manages to charge a name we know with something big,
then he'll roll over and give up some others, who in turn will roll over …
and encourage Uk dominoes …

and reveal enough that Brexiters & Trumpers will either have to totally disengage, or admit they've been conned
Hmm They might combust instead

Dominoes, but the first one has to roll, or the others won't

RedToothBrush · 30/03/2018 18:58

The only other people who seem to be reporting this, are Russia Today. So even though that's a Times Journalist, I'd suggest a word of caution.

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BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2018 18:59

Reflection … < exhales Lindt breath over the thread >

Mass social media, FB and smartphones only started in the Noughties
We can’t see yet how they may change our views and behaviour

  • including how the public may be manipulated by those wishing to gain / retain lower

We’re about where motor vehicles were in 1920 as regards development of the tech

  • and think of the massive social & economic changes that followed that.
BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2018 18:59

gain / retain power

RedToothBrush · 30/03/2018 19:08

twitter.com/BenTavener/status/979768711145017344

Ben Tavener @BenTavener (BBC Russia).
UK police search #Russia plane: Looks like that was probably Aeroflot flight #SU2582, which landed at London Heathrow at 1537 local; aircraft VP-BOC

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RedToothBrush · 30/03/2018 19:11

Ok, so this incident on Wednesday starts to look even odder:

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/gatwick-airport-incident-emergency-services-descend-after-ground-crew-member-struck-by-plane-a3801671.html
Gatwick Airport incident: Emergency services descend after ground crew member 'struck by plane'

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RedToothBrush · 30/03/2018 19:13

And this is the Metropolitan Police Statement on this twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/979775265193775104

Metropolitan Police @metpoliceuk
We are aware of a story circulating on social media. Please be advised that Metropolitan Police are not conducting a search of an Airbus inbound from Moscow at Heathrow.

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