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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 15:12

Ffs

Leave.EU
@LeaveEUOfficial
Is it any wonder that Labour can't be bothered to deal with the disgusting antisemitism in their party when they are so reliant on the votes of Britain's exploding Muslim population? It's a question of maths for these people, not justice!

Support us at

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
Dobby1sAFreeElf · 29/03/2018 15:40

The state of that poster. Ffs.
What the hell have we become as a nation? Just when you think the bar can't get lower.

TheElementsSong · 29/03/2018 15:59

Dear god, is that a real poster? Shock

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 16:02

Yes one of the jewish groups already has put out statement stating some of their best allies are muslims

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TheElementsSong · 29/03/2018 16:02

Just got my polling card for the May local election. It really is going to be a case of voting for the least worst option this time Sad.

Mizzling · 29/03/2018 16:08

Very glad to see these threads are still going strong and providing an oasis of sanity. Thanks to red and all regular contributors.

Really interesting on North/South divide.

"And if Corbyn isn't leading, who is?"

For some time I've been working on the assumption that Seumas Milne was operating Corbyn's strings. It increasingly looks like the most rational explanation.

Mizzling · 29/03/2018 16:20

The Leave.EU poster is utterly horrific. And it's not even the worst of theirs that I've seen.

All of this poison flowing unchecked so close to the mainstream would have been unthinkable five years ago.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 16:48

The next Cambridge Analytica type scandal Shock

thenational.scot/news/16126197.Why_is_a_Harlem_Globetrotter_asking_an_SNP_councillor_to_follow_a_LibDem_candidate_/

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 17:24

Don't tell me, people are buying people's twitter accounts and using them as accredited bots?

Didn't the Russia embassy put out a message asking for volunteers to offer their accounts to be used by bots sometime ago?

So you build up a following, then 'sell' your account and followers to a third party. Except the third party are completely unaware the account they originally followed is now run and used by another person, company or political group.

It takes selling your image or identity to a whole new level.

What do you reckon?

Think it won't happen?

Bet it already is.

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 17:42

www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/anger-as-diane-abbott-repeatedly-describes-labour-s-antisemitism-crisis-as-a-smear-campaign-1.461743
The Jewish Chronicle
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Lee Harpin

March 29, 2018

Anger as Diane Abbott repeatedly dismisses Labour’s antisemitism crisis as ‘a smear campaign’
Ms Abbott repeated a claim on Twitter that people were flocking to join Labour because they were "disgusted" by the "constant smearing of Jeremy Corbyn"

The jewish chronicle are pissed.

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2018 17:52

Why the Cambridge Analytica scandal could be much more serious than you think:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/why-the-cambridge-analytica-scandal-could-be-much-more-serious-than-you-think/27/03/amp/

A source close to Skripal (the poisoned former Russia spy) has said he was investigating the collusion between the Internet Research Agency, AIQ, Cambridge Analytica and its parent company, SCL

...
Both Sanni and Wylie have also confirmed that the harvested information has been shared with Kremlin linked entities.

These could include the Internet Research Agency troll farm in St Petersburg, accused by Robert Mueller and the US Supreme Court of manipulating the Trump vote in the US.

woman11017 · 29/03/2018 17:57

Interesting stuff BigChoc would explain why it's an invisible story in british press and Parliament apparently.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2018 17:58

The German Brexit Coordinator is as baffled by the UK govt current silence on Brexit as we are:

Peter Ptassek @GermanyonBrexit
Strange silence in UK after #EUCO guidelines on future relationship post #Brexit.

Why?

  1. No difference seen between PM’s Mansion speech concept of mutual recognition and EU-EFTA?
  2. Or concepts way too different?
  3. Not the right moment to talk? EU awaiting UK response... 4:45 PM - Mar 28, 2018

< Is the govt / Baldric's plan to wait until it's too late to sign a transition agreement, because then the EU will have to give us cake ? >

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 18:00

I'm having a good look at the breakdown of the latest YouGov poll. The last one was on the 14/15th March. This was 26th/27th March.

The poll shows the Cons up 1%.

In reality there is very little difference from the last one that I can see. I can't really tell where the extra 1% is coming from - its potentially a very slight increase in the won't vote column for men which is within the margin of error and the highest level of don't knows I've seen yet in women since last October.

24% of women are now saying they don't know how they will vote at the next election. Compared to just 14% of men.

The don't know rate for men seems to have stayed pretty constant. The don't know rate for women, seems to have shifted upwards since January, and I'm going to start calling that an upward trend if it continues for many more YouGov polls.

I need to have a good look at older ones prior to January to double check this and to see if its just happened since Christmas. Will try and delve deeper.

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prettybird · 29/03/2018 18:15

If you assume that the majority but not all Wink of posters on this thread are female (pace Hasenstein and DGRossetti Grin), it's not surprising that the YouGov polling is showing an increase in the female "Don't Knows" - as we despair of Labour's Brexit policy and of it being a credible opposition, let alone a viable government in waiting Sad. And with the exception of those of us in Scotland Wink, a dearth of viable alternatives Sad

Motheroffourdragons · 29/03/2018 18:21

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

DGRossetti · 29/03/2018 18:31

Happy to state I'm a man - XY and all that.

The whole issue of self-ID is quite lunatics/asylum, but my main goal is to ensure my DW doesn't get treated any worse that already happens on account of her disability. She already has problems with changing and toilet facilities, without adding another layer of how she "feels" about it.

So plumping for LibDems is still our current plan ....

Violetparis · 29/03/2018 18:32

It is so difficult to get a balanced view of so much in politics at the moment because there is so much spin, hype, hidden agendas and twitter bullshit on all sides. My brain is frazzled with it all.

mrsreynolds · 29/03/2018 18:41

I'm not surprised at the high rate of female "don't know" voters...if this thread is anything to go by...

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 19:22

This is a regular feature of trump’s presidency

Matt Dathan
@matt_dathan
Jeremy Corbyn's senior policy adviser Andrew Fisher told a meeting of Labour Shadow Cabinet political advisers today that people who continue to leak would be sacked.
And that threat has now been leaked to me.

Violetparis · 29/03/2018 19:48

That post by Matt Dathan just highlights what I was saying about hidden agendas and twitter bullshit. A Sun journalist - no bias there I'm sure Hmm, no witnesses, named sources, no evidence, just hearsay.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 20:01

This is a plot of the YouGov Don't Knows since July last year.

The blue is men, the pink is women.

Underneath is the lead the Conservatives have over Labour on the Headline Intention (which EXCLUDES DON'T KNOWS).

Typically, women have tended to lean labour if they are don't know, whilst men lean more to the right. So Labour could be gambling that women will still vote Labour when push comes to shove. This wouldn't show up in YouGov's Headline.

Its a good demonstration on why women's votes DO matter and why the don't knows are really important.

Notably here, the don't know increasing is affecting Labour far more than the Cons, plus the highest Con polling against Labour has been in weeks when the male not the female don't know has been particularly high. This is something I find particularly curious. Its something that perhaps should worry Labour more it doesn't fit with the normal assumption of how don't knows lean.

The local elections in May, should be really interesting to watch. There is clearly dissatisfaction which is hitting the Labour vote confidence. Despite all the fudging May has been doing on Brexit, it doesn't appear to be particularly harming the Conservatives.

This does seem to be a long term trend, with the real upward movement seeming to happen in December.

What happened in December?

May agreed the first stage of Brexit.

Make of that what you will.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 20:18

Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor
Kevin Schofield Retweeted Matt Dathan
He also sent an email to Labour advisers this week warning them not to tweet anything dodgy because the Tories employ a company which “scrapes” the internet for controversial posts to leak to journalists. Which was news to me, I have to say.

Political home isn't particular right wing.

Also:

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/communities/housing/news/94037/government-announces-major-climbdown-housing-benefit-cuts-18
Government announces major climbdown on housing benefit cuts for 18-21-year olds

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woman11017 · 29/03/2018 20:28

scrapes” the internet for controversial posts to leak to journalists
Like this odd story?
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/29/labour-mp-apologises-for-social-media-abuse-aimed-at-tory-activist