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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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Thread gallery
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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 20:35

Labour don't do anything about abuse done by members. Loads of complaints have been made by women. Nothing is ever done.

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Violetparis · 29/03/2018 20:36

Wonder if Jess Phillips will also start apologising on behalf of feminists who get online abuse for questioning self ID. Although I agree with her Guardian article I also see hidden agenda.

woman11017 · 29/03/2018 20:41

Labour don't do anything about abuse done by members.
Hence polling slump in women voters. We did say......

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 20:41

Journalists can't report what isn't on the internet can they?

This isn't difficult to understand. If you are against abuse to x, y or z and your party secretary of Aldershot by Blackburn tweets a load of shit, thats kind of a problem.

I think the message is don't be a dick.

For scrapping the internet, read 'holding the party to account'.

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prettybird · 29/03/2018 20:51

I thought something similar today Red : when Labour/Christine Shawcroft complain about the fact that her email was leaked, rather than addressing the content of the email and the fact that she wrote it Angry

Hasenstein · 29/03/2018 21:11

Also happy to confirm my maleness! I have a long screed to post about my DW's ongoing battle with the Home Office, but will have to leave it until another day (when she's calmed down and I've sobered up a bit).Grin

For now, as DGR and I have now been definitively outed, I'd just like to say that I'm so glad to be here, as these thread are simply the best place to find a bit of factual honesty and intelligent discussion beyond the MSM. I learn so much every day on here.

People look at me very suspiciously when I sing the praises of MN and try to explain why I value all your contributions so much.

Anyway, I really shouldn't have had that last pint, so I'm off to bed to sleep it off, before I get too gushingly complimentary about you all and try to tell you you're my bestest mates. What, no beer emoticon? This Wine will have to do!

lonelyplanetmum · 29/03/2018 21:13

I know this all sounds too weird to be believed, but people involved with CA and investigating it do seem to disappear. There also seem to be Russian connections- all very odd.

Drawing the Russian connections together.

1 below seems believable.

2 is true

3 and 4 are odd coincidences?

5 is strange

  1. A source close to Skripal (the poisoned former Russia spy) has said he was investigating the collusion between the Internet Research Agency, AIQ, Cambridge Analytica and its parent company, SCL?
  1. Daphne Caruana Galizia, the journalist who was recently killed by a car bomb in Malta, was also investigating Cambridge Analytica, among other firms.
  1. Aleksandr Kogan, the Cambridge University academic who orchestrated the harvesting of Facebook data, had ties to St Petersburg university plus grants for research into the social media network.
  1. Aaron Banks enabling the purchase of CA support for Vote Leave has some Russian links.
  1. Dan MureÅŸan, the son of former Romania Agriculture Minister Ioan Avram Muresan, died while working for the firm in Kenya.
frumpety · 29/03/2018 21:21

Did anyone on here hear The Brexit Lab on Radio 4 today at about 16.30 ? It was like a party political broadcast by the Conservative party , don't listen to it tonight as I wouldn't want you to disrupt your sleep or just listen to the last 5 minutes. I am still not completely convinced it wasn't satire ? please tell me it was Hmm

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 21:22

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/eu-migrants-could-enjoy-preferential-12274539.amp?__twitter_impression=true
EU migrants could enjoy 'preferential' rights to come to Britain after Brexit as top Tory refuses to rule it out
The Brexit Secretary would not rule out giving EU citizens "preferential treatment" - and said he didn't expect them to need visas

Erm, are we close to maintaining freedom of movement with this one?

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borntobequiet · 29/03/2018 21:26

It all sounds perfectly believable in a world where anything could happen, and just keeps on happening. A long long time ago I studied chaos theory. (Without ever properly understanding it, I'm sorry to say). I feel as though I'm currently living in one of those mathematical models.

borntobequiet · 29/03/2018 21:28

That was in response to lonely...

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 21:30

I suspect its just the same phenomenon as men who made money off the cotton trade. Its just that data is the latest thing to make money off. Also see colonialism in Indian. Its less about what their nationality is and how little they value human life. This attitude crosses borders and its just a bunch of tossers who know how to exploit the system and who won't complain about pesky human rights.

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woman11017 · 29/03/2018 21:39

all very odd.
There are many unknown unknowns lonely about that one, but there does look to be links. I'm wondering if Wylie is keeping a deliberately high profile. HOC Fair Votes rally with him and Sanni looked well attended, and absent from BBC news, of course.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 21:46

Isabel Hardman @ isabelhardman
A small personal post responding to the misogyny I’ve been receiving as a result of my personal life
I know it won’t change much on Twitter, which has turned into a cesspit for everyone: I am uninstalling this account on my phone and will be upping the protections on my notifications and DMs again. But it’s important to call it out.

medium.com/@IsabelHardman/the-1950s-phoned-c43220795e64

Interesting blog from a female journalist. Who happens to be assistant editor of the Spectator

Her particularly telling observation:
What is particularly mystifying is that all this sexism comes from the Left, who have ended up in a weird religious crusade in which they feel it is perfectly legitimate to abandon the values that they preach when they encounter someone they disagree with.

The whole blog, is rather depressing.

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lonelyplanetmum · 29/03/2018 21:48

Thanks Borntobequiet and RTB.

Its all making me thinking I'm living in the** prequel to some dystopian novel. I'm normally so anti conspiracy theories. DH can be a bit easily persuaded and will really irritate me by saying things like 'maybe the Royal family really did murder Diana.'

I get really cross with DH for not being able to rationalise stuff like that and tell him not to be ridiculous .Yet now I find myself absolutely convinced that on the fringes of this SCL/ CA business some very odd things really have happened.

If the Skripal attempted murders are in some way connected I wouldn't be surprised. Well the daughter Yulia has survived and is talking and not on the imminent critical list so if there are links, she may know.

lonelyplanetmum · 29/03/2018 21:51

And thanks to woman.

Before the ref if I'd read something similar in the paper I would have taken most of it with a pinch of salt and thought " As if".

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 21:56

www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/hannahalothman/leaked-minutes-show-this-labour-councillor-proposed-a?__twitter_impression=true
Leaked Minutes Show This Labour Councillor Proposed A Candidate Knowing He Had Shared An Anti-Semitic Facebook Post
Minutes of a local Labour Party meeting in November last year, seen by BuzzFeed News, show that Alan Bull was proposed by the Labour group leader Ed Murphy.

Yep. Scrapping the internet this. Nothing to do with holding a party to account for decisions made in minuted meetings...

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 21:58

I think conspiracy might be pushing it. Its just there are so few men with that amount of money who are able to invest in this way. They all know each other, and do business with each other for the same reason.

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 22:03

Kevin Schofield @ polhomeditor
BREAKING: More than 40 Labour MPs and peers - including three shadow ministers - write to Jeremy Corbyn urging him to suspend Christine Shawcroft from the party over Holocaust row.

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/94051/labour-mps-and-peers-urge-jeremy
Labour MPs and peers urge Jeremy Corbyn to suspend Christine Shawcroft from Labour party

Three shadow ministers - Jonathan Reynolds, Mike Kane and Lord Hunt - are among those who have signed a letter to the Labour leader saying it is "utterly wrong" for her to still be a member of the party's ruling National Executive Committee.

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 22:06

These are the 41.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 22:10

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/29/labour-quietly-reinstated-six-councillors-posted-anti-semitic/amp/?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
Labour quietly reinstated six councillors who posted anti-Semitic messages

Labour quietly reinstated at least six councillors who posted anti-Semitic messages online, analysis shows, as a party insider told The Telegraph the complaints process is being manipulated by political factions.

Yes we needed an insider to confirm the obvious.

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 22:15

The Swawkbox @ skwawkbox
They're exceptionally ignorant MPs and peers, since Corbyn doesn't do member discipline and there's no mechanism in the rules for sacking elected NEC members. Whatever anyone thinks of the latter fact, it's not Corbyn's responsibility

The leader of the labour party is not responsible for the labour party nor does he have any influence.

Get excuses in early.

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woman11017 · 29/03/2018 22:17

There needs to be a more informed and honest debate about Israel, and its relationship with the west. The academic, cultural and trade boycott has had repercussions; green lighting all sorts of unpleasantness in real life and on the internet. If Jewish escapees from Nazi Germany had been welcomed to America and Britain during the 1930s and WW2, history would have been very different. There was talk of offering Jewish refugees other locations at the time, Mexico, offered safe haven for many.

JC's inadequacies urgently need him to be replaced as labour leader; his poor response to this anti semitism needs to be handled carefully. He needs to be removed for so much more besides. Not least, brexit.

HesterThrale · 29/03/2018 22:22

Why isn't there concentrated, vocal, continuing outrage about the way factions of Labour treat women? And action?

Or is there?

woman11017 · 29/03/2018 22:27

Silence and worse on that one Hester