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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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SusanWalker · 29/03/2018 11:55

I don't know why they think we will pull together over Brexit now. It's been nearly two years and it's not happened. Why should I get behind something that will not only make me even poorer than I am now but also disadvantage my kids?

Wonder what the odds are on JC's continuing as leader?

TheElementsSong · 29/03/2018 12:00

"Let's all work together for the common good of the UK"

Argh this gives me the rage too prettybird - one of those completely meaningless soundbites!

Nobody ever comes up with specific, factual, practical steps for "being positive" or "working together" towards specific and quantifiable goals that could be defined as "good" or "successful".

But they are always very clear that any "bad" stuff that happens is because of Remoaners' failure to "work together" or "think positively".

lonelyplanetmum · 29/03/2018 12:07

I agree, yes let's pull together, first look at some experienced expert opinions, facts, figures and projections.

Then let's all pull England, Scotland and Northern Ireland together -by retaining our bloody lucrative and essential safety net of EU membership.

Turn the pull together platform around.

NotDavidTennant · 29/03/2018 12:15

It's just a rhetorical flourish so that when opponents inevitably don't "work together for the common good of the UK" (because they realise how batshit the whole business is) they can be dismissed as unpatriotic, traitors, etc.

"We gave you a chance to work with us for the common good and you didn't, so you're clearly unreasonable and we don't have to listen to you anymore" is what the message will be.

SusanWalker · 29/03/2018 12:35

You would have thought the tories would have learned their lesson from Cameron and his 'all in it together' bullshit.

To borrow another phrase:

"Not in my name".

prettybird · 29/03/2018 12:35

The nasty more angry part of me is increasingly thinking, "Hell yes, let's leave the EU or even crash out with No Deal , let all the realistic worst predictions happen, let the people see how bad it is going to be and that it is only going to get worse, as the venture capitalist vultures feed off the carcass of the UK and its by then unaffordable failing welfare state and NHS. Maybe then the Scots will see sense and vote to leave the hubristic UK - which will then earn the justly acquired acronym fUKd "

Sorry. Blush

SusanWalker · 29/03/2018 12:36

Don't apologise pretty.

I feel bloody angry today myself.

SusanWalker · 29/03/2018 12:39

Not just with the tories either. With the labour party and their fellow traveller response to Brexit. And JC who should just stand down and let someone else sort out the appalling mess that is the LP. As he either can't or won't.

lonelyplanetmum · 29/03/2018 13:05

To try and cheer people up.. Owen Smith remember him? His absurd sacking seems so long ago already..

Dear Mrs [LPM],

Thank you so much for taking the time to get in touch in regarding the stance I have taken over Brexit. I am completely overwhelmed by the volume of support I have received, and I am heartened that so many people in our country continue to feel so passionate about the importance of the UK remaining within the EU.

Please rest assured that I will continue to speak out for what I believe is right, and in the best interests of our Country. In short, that there is no such thing as a good Brexit and that for the future prosperity, security and solidarity of our country we need to work to change minds and secure a vote for the people on the real Brexit deal.

Yours sincerely

Owen Smith MP

prettybird · 29/03/2018 13:06

As my dad reminded me yesterday (he couldn't remember if he'd read it or if someone had said it to him): someone, when asked how "they" would cope if/when Scotland wins its independence, answered, "it will take time but I'm sure that England will eventually be able to survive on its own" WinkGrin

lonelyplanetmum · 29/03/2018 13:23

Just repeating Owen Smith's key phrase

"there is no such thing as a good Brexit and that for the future prosperity, security and solidarity of our country we need to work to change minds

DGRossetti · 29/03/2018 13:29

I posted previously (possibly in another life) that irrespective of what Brexiteers might want regarding EU immigration, they can only have what's possible, which isn't much, since the UK really hasn't got a clue - literally - about who should be here to start with.

www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/29/details_of_600000_foreign_visitors_thanks_to_shonky_border_dataase/

The details of 600,000 foreign visitors have slipped through the cracks of the Home Office's database thanks to its "shambolic" exit checks system.

A report (PDF) by the chief inspector of borders and immigration, David Bolt, examined the department's Initial Status Analysis (ISA) system database and how ISA-produced data had been used by the Home Office and other agencies.

It found that as of 31 March 2017, there were no departure records of 88,134 non-EU visa nationals with ISA "identities" – whose visas typically last six months – nor for 513,088 identified non-visa nationals.

Staff told the inspector they lacked confidence in the system, which they said had been "mis-sold", while an airline official described it as "shambolic".

(contd)

remind me again, how that border will work ?

Of course we could just reverse the concept, and insist that every single person in the UK has to prove - on pain of deportation - that they have a right to reside here. Or have they already started ....

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/22/theresa-may-refuses-to-intervene-over-mans-54000-nhs-cancer-bill-albert-thompson

Theresa May has refused to intervene in the case of Albert Thompson, the London cancer patient asked to pay £54,000 for treatment despite having lived in the UK for 44 years, as it emerged that there could be tens of thousands of people in a similarly uncertain immigration position.

Thompson, 63, is not receiving the radiotherapy treatment he needs for prostate cancer because he has been unable to provide officials with sufficient documentary evidence showing that he has lived in the UK continuously since arriving from Jamaica as a teenager in 1973. He is unable to pay the £54,000 fee.

(contd)

I wonder how long before my (obviously furrin) surname causes issues Hmm - it's a damn sight less "British" than Thompson

prettybird · 29/03/2018 13:50

I was just saying to my dad yesterday that thank god we were a middle class, foreign travelling family, which meant that my parents had naturalised as soon as possible (my dad, my brother and for us all British passports.

Having arrived here aged 3, over 50 years ago, from a (then) Commonwealth country, on my mum's passport, I'm not sure how otherwise I would've "proven" my right to be here Shock

It's not as if I have the ticket stubs for the boat from South Africa Hmm

Peregrina · 29/03/2018 13:56

Having arrived here aged 3, over 50 years ago, from a (then) Commonwealth country, on my mum's passport, I'm not sure how otherwise I would've "proven" my right to be here

That is surely part of the problem - that many of these people who are now asking to prove that they have been here legitimately for the past 40-50 years, will never have had the paperwork in their possession anyway, but it would have been in their parents hands. If the parents who brought them over have passed away there is a good chance any documentation has now been disposed of.

lalalonglegs · 29/03/2018 14:13

Recent YouGov polling shows 73% of Labour voters are opposed to Brexit, only 20% in favour. twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/979323292476755968

Why, why, why are they sleepwalking towards Brexit? (Rhetorical, we've been through this, still hard to believe though.)

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 14:20

Laura Kuennsberg @ bbclaurak
1. PM tells @bbcnews there will be money from a Brexit dividend for the NHS, but doesn't rule out a tax rise to pay for long term funding plan
2. PM says she understands some people are frustrated with Brexit process but having a smooth departure matters
3. And I asked her, will Brexit worth it? PM says, 'there are real opportunities for the UK --- and yes, I think breixt is going to deliver a country that will be different'

Let me translate what Theresa May really said:
Laura Kuennsberg @ bbclaurak
1. PM tells @bbcnews there will be a tax rise to pay for long term funding plan for the NHS
2. PM says she understands the Tory party want to cash in on the removal of rights now but they need to be patient whilst they create a new target of hate to blame for the inevitable Brexit fallout
3. And I asked her, will Brexit worth it? PM says, 'there are real opportunities for the rich --- and yes, I think breixt is going to deliver a country that will be different (but notably not better)'

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 14:23

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
She just can’t bring herself to say a simple yes: Theresa May asked by @bbclaurak if brexit is worth it

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 14:27

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/29/cambridge-analytica-predecessor-had-access-to-secret-mod-information?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
Cambridge Analytica predecessor had access to secret MoD information
SCL was praised by MoD for training it provided to a psychological operations warfare group, documents reveal

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DGRossetti · 29/03/2018 14:29

She just can’t bring herself to say a simple yes: Theresa May asked by @bbclaurak if brexit is worth it

Which should sound loud clanging warning bells in Brexiteer land (if you can hear with your head that far up your own arse ?).

'there are real opportunities for the UK --- and yes, I think breixt is going to deliver a country that will be different'

Just for the hard of thinking,

different != better

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 14:35

Jim Pickard @ pickardje
"He was an Old Etonian, a multimillionaire hedge fund manager, a Conservative MP, and the son of a life peer. He lived in a Grade II-listed country house, and he used to take his nanny out canvassing.”

“And what did he say?”

“He said we must defy the Establishment....."

Louise Haigh MP @ louhaigh
Aren't these the lyrics to a Blur song?

For the avoidance of confusion, everytime Mogg says the word establishment, replace with the words 'liberal democracy'.

Every.single.time.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 14:36

Oh and replace poor with rich.

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TheElementsSong · 29/03/2018 14:44

think breixt is going to deliver a country that will be different

Wow, no shit, Sherlock.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 14:45

Carole Cadwalladr
@carolecadwalla
Here is is. The Cambridge Analytica/Facebook contract. Denied by Facebook. Denied by Cambridge Analytica. Leaked by @chrisinsilico. And published today by @DamianCollins as part of UK parliament's fake news inquiry.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 14:50

The one where geologists are now political enemies:

www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/leigh-baldwin-marcus-leroux/not-everyone-agrees-with-arron-banks-about-value-of-his-dia
Not everyone agrees with Arron Banks about the value of his diamond mines

It is geologically impossible for Banks to find gems in commercial quantities, says Keith Whitelock, a geologist and expert on Lesotho diamonds who developed the Letseng mine.

Lesotho’s unique geology means alluvial diamonds are only usually found within two or three kilometres of the diamond-bearing rock, according to Whitelock. But Banks is prospecting near Lesotho’s South African border, around 200 kilometres downstream.

“Anyone who thinks they can find diamonds there is delusional,” Whitelock said.

Banks has hired his own geologist, who disputes this view.

“Whitelock is the authority on diamonds in Lesotho so everything he says is pretty much gospel but what can I tell you, we’ve recovered diamonds there,” said Hunter Kennedy, the expert employed by Banks. “In my mind it’s very logical.”

Stones found at Banks’s prospecting sites have been taken to the capital, Maseru, for valuation, Kennedy said. So far, there are not enough diamonds to determine whether the venture can make money and it is not yet clear if the find is a freak occurrence or the start of something bigger.

”He may find the odd one just by chance,” said Whitelock. “But he’s going to have to mine thousands of tonnes to find one diamond and unless you can count your diamonds per tonne or per hundred tonnes you’ve got nothing.”

“I think they should keep digging,” Kennedy said.

The rest of the article gets worse.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 14:56

Pah, he’s only a know-it-all expert anyway. Similarly:

Frederic Moreau
@goodclimate
Lord Kerr tells @mrjamesob Article 50 was designed to permit a far-right EU member state to quit the union in an orderly fashion.

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