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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 07:44

Paul Waugh @ paulwaugh
McDonnell just asked by Sky if she should step down from NEC, hasn't answered so far

To be fair, its a straight choice between Christine Shawcross and Eddie Izzard... not sure i'd want to seen to favour either!

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 07:46

Kevin Schofield @ polhomeditor
John McDonnell repeatedly refuses to say that Christine Shawcroft should be removed from Labour's national executive committee over her support for a candidate who suggested the Holocaust was a hoax.

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mrsreynolds · 29/03/2018 07:54

😮

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 07:59

Paul Waugh @ paulwaugh
Admirable persistence by @SkyNews @skysarahjane in asking McDonnell 3 times if Shawcroft shd quit NEC. Got an answer in the end, but it's one many in Labour won't like. Shawcroft wd quit if asked to by leadership (just as she resigned disputes at his request)

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borntobequiet · 29/03/2018 08:31

I was a bit gobsmacked at the Today programme this morning (JH not presenting so safe for me to listen without risking hypertension) because it was about Brexit and seemed quite balanced. What has happened? The two female presenters (Sarah and Mishal, I think) sounded more cheerful than usual.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 08:35

Ben Bradshaw @ benpbradshaw
Asked repeatedly what will happen if/when Parliament rejects Tory #Brexit deal Liam Fox fails to answer. #BrexitShambles @BBCr4today #FBPE he also fails to rule out #Article50 extension

I thought position was a50 couldn't easily be extended only reversed (politically makes no sense to the eu to even offer). The transition period perhaps could be extended though.

But Fox doesn't even go for the line about how a50 is almost impossible to extend.

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Peregrina · 29/03/2018 08:35

I am partly in agreement that a powerful interest group is trying to get at Corbyn. Last year's onslaught was how he would lose votes for Labour, which May believed, and now it's been seen that didn't work, and the Tories are in a mess, it's "Let's see what else we can find to trash Corbyn".

An even slightly left wing tabloid press could go to town on how the Tories are anti-semitic, racist and xenophobic - we even had the reason given that this is what we expect from them.

I am not a fan of Corbyn - he's not the right leader for today, but it's up to them to find a better one, which they failed to do when they last tried.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 08:36

Bornquiet I think you might have answered your own question. No JH!

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 08:44

Jo Green @ jgcc_press
Corbyn’s office must have known about the Shawcroft email before putting out statements on Sunday night and Monday. They saw this and they didn’t sack her. Wow.

John Ruddy @ jruddy99
Bear in mind they didn't remove Corbyn from further FB anti-semitic groups after he was caught in the first one.

Tories are having a field day over this. I think Guido has said Corbyn is a member of 5 anti-semitic fb groups now.

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woman11017 · 29/03/2018 09:06

What has happened It has been noted, mass #FBPE complaints to BBC, and people are commenting on brexit coverage using this hashtag today. #BBCr4today

ALittleAubergine · 29/03/2018 09:06

I think it would be fair to say that since jc became the labour leader there have been several campaigns against him by msm, including left wing press and even some labour MPs. So this latest one could be seen as just another campaign to remove him. We'll see how he handles it in the end. The current state of politics in the UK means that everyone is pretty much forced to choose between bad and worse.

The whole sorry mess that is brexit shows that we don't have any strong leaders in any party and that the whole system is due an urgent change.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 09:08

A C Grayling #FBPE #ABTV #WATON #OFOC
@acgrayling
Prediction: Parliamentary debate on a further referendum on Brexit, forced by a petition, to be held on 30 April: there will be an empty chamber. Our democracy now is AN EMPTY CHAMBER. The coup sustained by the Whips telling our ‘representatives’ to stay away

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 09:11

That's in response to this:

You recently signed the petition “Parliament's vote on the Brexit deal must include an option to remain in the EU.”:
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/205169

We've had to change the date of the debate on this petition. The petition will now be debated on Monday 30 April at 4.30pm.

You'll be able to watch the debate online at www.parliamentlive.tv

We're really sorry if this change causes you any inconvenience.

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 09:18

David Schneider
‏*@davidschneider*
Labour’s problems need addressing but here’s a handy list of why I’m sticking with them.

My issue is that it's dishonest to pretend that Brexit won't have a huge, devastating impact on the things in the right hand column, and that ignoring this is just a different flavour of lying to the electorate. Perhaps even more mendacious, although I'm not awake enough to articulate why. Brexit and racism is missing from the Tory side too.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
Peregrina · 29/03/2018 09:24

I agree mostly with that list from DavidSchneider.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 09:41

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
NEW: Theresa May seeking to capitalise on Labour woes: Govt are going to announce at the business statement a general debate on anti-semitism on tues 17 April

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SingaSong12 · 29/03/2018 09:53

Just listening to a phone in/discussion from Middlesbrough on Radio 5. So sad about the future. Realised how much of a remoaner I still am. I don't expect the decision to be reversed, feel like I did the morning after the vote Sad

lonelyplanetmum · 29/03/2018 10:08

I just don't understand why, in the very week when the Cambridge Analytica stuff finally broke into the news that the focus is mostly on a very long standing fissure of anti semitism in the Labour Party.

There has been electoral spending fraud that esteemed members of the ruling cabinet must have known about. So why is the focus on the opposition?

I know anti semitism is very serious and isn't a squirrel but even so the timing is bizarre.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 10:13

This from Marianne Tellier - Park & Arbourthorne Labour Party secretary

twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/979280312940326912

Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor
What the hell is going on with Labour?

Robert Webb @arobertwebb
I think they’ve actually lost their fucking minds.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 10:17
Shock
mybrainhurtsalot · 29/03/2018 11:00

Yougov daily agenda is on Brexit today. Question was something about whether your feelings have changed about how Brexit is going.

When I contributed the option that was something like: “I thought Brexit would be bad for Britain and I still think that” had received most votes (41%). I didn’t note the exact figures for other categories, but there were definitely more people feeling negatively than positively.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 11:07

Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
This is interesting:

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
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DGRossetti · 29/03/2018 11:12

It's all fiddling while Rome burns, really.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 11:23

Meanwhile in the Lords

Esther Webber @estwebber
The Lords are having a Brexit-themed question time to mark one year to go. I knew you'd be pleased.

Nick Lester @nickolester
Home Office Minister Baroness Williams tells people can have whatever passport colour they want by buying a cover, including yellow bob spongepants

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prettybird · 29/03/2018 11:44

I'm fed up of listening to people saying on all these "one year to go" programmes saying, "Let's all work together for the common good of the UK" Angry

The common good of the UK is TO STAY IN THE EU ConfusedAngrySad ....as an absolute minimum to stay in the SM or CU.

..... and breeeeaaaathe Wink