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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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Thread gallery
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thecatfromjapan · 28/03/2018 23:18

In my dreams, this would be about reining in the extreme element around Corbyn. But I don't know if I actually have any dreams left. Milne seems to be Teflon.

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 23:20

Bit of Labour party politics for those struggling to understand.

Labour currently has three distinct factions. The two most publicised as warring are momentum and 'the blarites'.

But recent reports have been about a developing war between two of the left wing elements of the party: momentum and the union movement.

(The union movement are largely anti self id, because of the large number of female trade unionists.)

Jennie Formby is one of the trade unionists and one of corbyns closest allies.

Her appointment over a momentum candidate (rumoured to be jon lansmann) was thought to be a real victory.

The alliance with momentum is an uneasy one. Momentum is much more middle class brosocialists and has some of the most controversial elements of the party.

This to me, smells a lot like a part of that on going battle.

It also seems that Corbyn is trying to be placed closer to the unionists than momentum at present.

Worth following all this, with that in mind.

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thecatfromjapan · 28/03/2018 23:24

That's an interesting interpretation. And, sadly, probably more likely than my dream of this being a signal that Corbyn is going to move away from anti-semitism/extreme elements. Sad

SusanWalker · 28/03/2018 23:28

Corbyn won't want to upset the trade unions. They have a lot of say in leadership contests. Notably the trade unions were what swung it for Ed against David.

Just had a survey through from yougov asking about voting intentions. Asked if I was a member of a party and, I assume because I said Labour, asked me a lot of questions on the labour leadership, anti-semitism and Brexit.

I did make it clear I was not going to vote labour at the next election.

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 23:28

Linda Grant @ lindagrant
Interview with my sister @michelegrant describing what happened when she reported a Labour Party member for virulent antisemitism, it took 16 months and left her feeling distressed and as if she was on trial.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p062kn1g

Victoria Derbyshire from today.

Thats interesting. There does seem to be a really big problem with the Labour complaints system.

Women have been going nuts over how several Trans activists have called fellow labour members cunts without action whilst they have been suspended and interrogated. The trans script of the venice allen disciplinary was appalling and thoroughly Orwellian. Jennifer James's treatment has been poor. And Lily Madigan seems to be able to say anything without repecussion.

The whole thing does seem to start to look like part of this faction war, with momentum using their control over disciplinaries to effectively bully people out of the party, whilst protecting their own low life element of the party.

This really does make for an interesting development.

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RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 23:32

Victoria Freeman @ makes_trouble
This is truly astonishing. Labour’s NCC wanted to give an obvious racist the chance to “cross examine” the person who brought his racism to light

(About the Victoria Derbyshire example).

This also sounds like the story of the labour mp and the activist who accused him of harassing her. I forget the names. Jess Phillips threated to resign the whip over the handling of the case. Again the mp was a momentum sympathiser.

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RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 23:35

Here we go, this is the story:
order-order.com/people/jess-phillips/
JESS PHILLIPS THREATENS TO QUIT LABOUR OVER TREATMENT OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT VICTIM

Not enough attention has been given to Labour’s dire handling of their sexual harassment allegations. It emerged last night that Labour HQ tried to make Ava Etemadzadeh‏ face live questions from her alleged harasser Kelvin Hopkins. Jess Phillips is threatening to quit the party over it

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RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 23:43

www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2018/03/christine-shawcroft-resigns-and-becomes-first-casualty-labours-new-civil?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Christine Shawcroft resigns and becomes the first casualty of Labour's new civil war

In which we discover, that if Shawcroft resigns from the NEC, 'lesbian' Eddie Izzard automatically takes her seat.

Izzard is a progress (blairite) candidate. Noteable here is that one of the loudest voices for Shawcross to resign the NEC is Richard Angell, who is, you've guessed it a senior part of progress.

That doesn't matter to the power balance.

This does though:

Shawcroft’s role as chair of the disputes panel gave her a seat around the NEC officers table, and although there is a “left” majority in the NEC officers, that is not the same as a majority for the Labour leadership and is different again from a “Momentum majority”. Shawcroft was the only true-blue Momentum representative on that group, with the major power brokers the representatives of three of Labour’s biggest trade unions: Unite, Unison, and the GMB. Shawcroft’s departure may mean that the Momentumites find themselves shut out should a parliamentary seat fall vacant over the next few months.

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RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 23:48

And yes, my head is hurting trying to understand all this internal scrapping. You are a better person than me, if you aren't going 'eh?'.

It does look a lot like there is a major issue with disciplinary proceedings in the party though, that does come from the top, and from the look of it, the smells seems to come from Shawcroft.

The question is Corbyn something of a hostage to momentum or its biggest supporter.

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 00:07

amp.ft.com/content/53d380a6-32d6-11e8-b5bf-23cb17fd1498?__twitter_impression=true
Labour anti-Semitism rift deepens as disciplinary chief steps down
Momentum figure Christine Shawcroft queried suspension of apparent Holocaust denier

Ft article frames shawcroft as a close ally of Corbyn. Good short summary though

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 00:10

Owen Jones @ owenjones84
I understand Christine Shawcroft was told to stand down personally by Jeremy Corbyn.

And with that im off to bed. My head hurts.

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 00:14

Liam Young @ liamyoung
Utterly disgraceful for @sajidjavid to refer to @PeoplesMomentum as "neofascist" - wonder if he would dare say that outside of the chamber?

Erm, given the holocaust denial going on, this tweet hasn't aged well and arguably Javid doesn't look that unfair. The whole story is tory gold dust.

It was posted at 9.44pm tonight.

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mathanxiety · 29/03/2018 06:38

None of this would be happening in a party where a leader was actually leading.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 06:44

Kevin Schofield
@PolhomeEditor
Also worth noting that Christine Shawcroft ousted Ann Black just a few weeks ago with the full support of Jeremy Corbyn, Momentum, the trade unions ... and new Labour general secretary Jennie Formby.

woman11017 · 29/03/2018 06:56

There's are reasons why the SWP (like UKIP) has seldom won through conventional means. It's all the more tragic, that good people ( like those who voted leave for the best of reasons) have joined momentum cat. SWP have a history of conducting their own trials. Including rape trials.
Kudos to British Jewry and Women's Place for standing up to them.
Izzard. What are they thinking.
The filmed attack on a picket line by TRAs on one woman who had attended Women's Place meeting, can't have gone down well with trades unionists either. Not how pickets are conducted.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 07:06

Benjamin Kentish
@BenKentish
More than 2000 people on the “We Support Jeremy Corbyn” Facebook page have endorsed a letter saying Monday’s protest was the “onslaught” of a “very powerful special interest group” using its “immense strength” and “history and influence” to “employ the full might of the BBC”...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-antisemitism-protest-powerful-special-interest-group-jewish-a8278761.html

Daniel Finkelstein
@Dannythefink
This is truly truly amazing. These people are arguing that the Jews use our influence, power and media control to conspire to make - and here comes the hilarious bit - a FALSE argument that they are antisemitic! The sheer stupidity is staggering even before you get to the racism.

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?
woman11017 · 29/03/2018 07:15

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/29/eu-parents-warned-children-need-papers-to-stay-in-uk-after-brexit?
British children. Sad

@SamCoatesTimes
BBC has dropped two special Panoramas about Vote Leave, brexit and data, it is claimed

@carolecadwalla
Last week's story about about Facebook? The one that wiped $79 billion off the stock price? It was dropped by @BBC's Panorama. This week's story? Dropped by @BBC's Panorama. They have this evidence. They've just refused to broadcast it. Questions?

#r4today hashtag today, as people are commenting on coverage.

woman11017 · 29/03/2018 07:18

This is truly truly amazing. It is just nationalist socialism. Nothing to see here.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 07:18

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/94019/owen-smith-i-learned-i-had-been
Owen Smith: I learned I had been sacked from the Shadow Cabinet in a text from a journalist

Who sacked Owen Smith?

Might sound crazy but was it corbyn?

Or

Was it someone from his inner circle and then Corbyn went along with it, because the press had already been told he'd sacked Smith?

At this point, I am seriously starting to wonder. There are rather a lot of decisions being over ruled by senior aides or statements put out by spokesmen, rather than coming from the horse's mouth.

As math says, would there be these problems if Corbyn was actually leading.

And if Corbyn isn't leading, who is?

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 07:23

Kevin Schofield @ polhomeeditor
John McDonnell says proper measures against anti-Semitism in Labour should have been brought in "ages ago". #r4today

Is that a criticism of Corbyn? Who DID leak the Christine Shawcross story?

Seeing McDonnell be straight off the block like that, and seemingly critical of Corbyn is fascinating.

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 07:29

Yesterday

George Eaton @ georgeeaton
This is significant: Emily Thornberry suggests Labour will likely vote for the Brexit deal and so it will easily pass.

Starmer wasn't happy. Last night we moved to this

Jim Pickard @ pickardje
apparently Thornberry's tone of voice was "heavily sarcastic", Labour doesn't believe government is likely to meet its six Brexit tests, there will still be a major crunch point in the autumn, you can all stand down

This morning:
Jim Pickard @ pickardje
^John McDonnell tells #today the
government is “nowhere near” meeting Labour’s six tests, implying his party will after all try to vote down the Brexit agreement^

Who is running Labour?

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 29/03/2018 07:32

Shawcross was fired because she didn’t agree with Alan Bull being suspended but he must have been approved by someone/people in the first place. Will there be no reckoning for them? There were tweets on the last thread from people saying despite their concerns, he had been nominated as candidate so it wasn’t as though he flew in under the radar - people knew about his antisemetism before he was made candidate.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 07:37

Michael Fabricant @ Mike_Fabricant
I challenge Shami Chakrabarti to admit her white-wash report on #antisemitism in #Labour - which got her promoted straight into the House of Lords by #Corbyn - was totally wrong given that #Corbyn has now admitted #antisemitism is rife in #OldLabour.
Will you at least admit THAT?

Gareth Snell MP @ gareth_snell
Until the Tory Party is free from bigots, islamophobes, homophobes and racists; has apologised for its dog-whistle politics and disgusting campaign against Sadia Khan, your advice isn’t needed Michael. #thanksbutnothanks

YOUR RACISM IS BIGGER THAN MINE. NER NER NER NER.

please...

The state of this.

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 07:38

I believe a lot of the argument about Bull was because he was about to win a seat. That was more important that anything. That too needs to be looked at.

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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2018 07:42

Kevin Schofield @ polhomeeditor
John McDonnell tells Sky News Emily Thornberry is "one of the future leaders of our country". Interesting.

My eyesbrows just met my hairline...

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