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Brexit

Westminstenders: Why didn't you whistle whilst you worked?

980 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2018 18:33

After over a year in the public dominion, SUDDENLY the mainstream media have picked up the story on breeches by the Leave campaigns over election rules. This comes off the back of the Cambridge Analytic scandal with Facebook data having been stolen and their offices (finally) being raided.

This has now led to the involvement of solicitors Bindmans (who were involved with the Gina Miller case and are associated with prominent Remain Jolyon Maugam) and have released a 53 page document they say is evidence of collaboration between Vote Leave and BeLeave campaigns. They state effectively that there is no 'smoking gun' rather a 'drip drip drip' effect of cumulative information (as Sam Coates succinctly sums up).

What difference does this make?

Both the Electoral Commission and the ICO have very little power and in law there doesn't appear to technically be any recourse. This needs to be addressed now as an extreme priority.

The prospect of another referendum being run in such circumstances, is alarming. Without an inquiry into what went wrong, how could you prevent any of this from happening again? There would also be feelings of some kind of establishment stitch-up to reverse the referendum, which could have major implications for trust in democracy in its own right.

There seems to be no easy answer here. And Brexit increasingly looks to be the turkey that was feared, though not exactly in the way the deeply flawed remain campaign made out.

Noises from the disgruntled Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings read like almost a threat to go after the EHCR which is just as poorly understood as the EU. And there is every reason to believe that Lexiter types would also be supportive if that meant they could take property from private ownership and put into state ownership without having to properly compensate.

Worth noting is that Cummings originally deleted his twitter account when this first started to surface. A least one of the whistleblowers was and still is a committed Leaver. Cummings seems rattled, but Cummings was previously on record as saying he wanted to destroy our existing establishment. He's not rattled about the damage to democracy nor I suspect even leaving the EU; he's rattled at prospect of being 'caught'. Make of that what you will.

With that in mind, shouldn't we be the mildest bit cautious about the intentions of Chris Wylie when he says we should have another referendum? Should we be cynical, rather than just accepting this as being great news and getting excited about an opportunity to reverse Brexit? Worst still our failure to be able to trust anything, in itself, is a sign of just how weak our democracy has become.

Are the efforts to dig up a story which should have been dealt with twelve months ago, going to help? Could they cause more damage and further risk our now seemingly ever fragile democracy?

I don't know. Impossible to tell. As Westministenders has said from very early on, the referendum wasn't just about leaving the EU but also a turning of backs on the concepts and principles of democracy. Only now is this really beginning to show its true ugliness to the masses. Even now, few see the real dangers here. Many are so blinded by the hatred of their political 'enemies' they turn a blind eye to their own side's zealotry and dogma.

The danger from the far right was always much more clear to see, but the danger from the far left as it grows bolder is also starting to be alarming.

If you think this is merely about leaving the EU, you are wrong. Even if we do stay in the EU after everything, we may still lose what it is to be a real functioning democracy.

Unless we promote these principles and involve all in society and give them a stake in the future; either inside or outside the EU we will be in a whole world more trouble.

And if that wasn't bad enough. Russian spies and murders plus the appointment of warmonger Bolton at the Whitehouse.

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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 28/03/2018 18:43

Is that good news or (as I expect it is) bad news because it leaves the Labour Party even more full to the brim with cult-types?

mrsreynolds · 28/03/2018 18:49

I can't vote for the lib dems either DG based on their stance on self ID

It's a fucker

It really is

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2018 18:51

Michael Gove asked by @SkyNews @DermotMurnaghan

“were you aware of £625,000 Vote Leave donation [to BeLeave]? "

“No. I wasn't involved in the day to day running of the campaign...”

BUT …
Page 3 of the Submission (before the EU ref) to the Electoral Commission by Vote Leave

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/data/assets/pdff_file/0004/200659/Vote-Leave-Ltd-Further-evidence.pdf

"A Core Group of seven
(Michael Gove MP; Gisela Stuart MP; Boris Johnson MP; Matthew Elliott; Dominic Cummings, Victoria Woodcock and Ian Davidson)
meet on a daily basis,* Hmm whether in person or by electronic means, to ensure that the Campaign is on track*"

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 18:52

I suspect he won't trigger a by-election by the sound of that. And even if he does, he only has a majority of 209. I suspect that the area is particularly sensitive to Corbyn and Russia (look what happened at the by-election in neighbouring Copeland).

Labour is stuffed either way. Woodcock has a pretty strong hand here all things considered.

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TheElementsSong · 28/03/2018 18:54

I can't vote for the lib dems either DG based on their stance on self ID

Right now, they're all drunk on the same self ID KoolAid. So I'm voting based on Brexit.

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 18:58

Mrsreynolds have you seen a lib dem lord is meeting gender critical people to understand the debate better.

I've been talking to LD members about their MP selection process. From what I've been told, I do feel that their selection process is somewhat more robust and better at weeding out the crazys than Labours currently seems to be. I was a bit reassured by that.

Still hate the policy mind, and I genuinely don't know which way id jump in an election.

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RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 19:07

www.buzzfeed.com/ryanmac/cambridge-analytica-chris-wylie-eunoia-trump-campaign?bftwnews&utm_term=.ctWY8MoAEX#.nivK4PQRmd
The Cambridge Analytica Whistleblower Had A Company That Met With Trump’s Campaign Manager
"We have developed a series of algorithms that can predict the personality traits of individual voters by analyzing their voterfile, social, online and consumer data.”

This story sounds like a pretty big motive for Wylie to sing like a canary.

He had his own start up business - separate from CA called Eunoia Technologies - which met with Trump's campaign manager.

Things are going to get ugly.

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mrsreynolds · 28/03/2018 19:10

I hadn't, no

Not sure it convinces me tbh

Self ID seems to be the new fad amongst the young and vulnerable...emo, self harm, anorexia...now this... its all so, so worrying

I went through puberty very young. By the time I was 13 I had a very womanly figure (d cup) and was as tall as I am now

I got ALOT of unwanted attention. Not just from boys my own age but from grown men, some older than my dad. It was very scary.

I have been followed by men in vans and cars. I have been cat called, yelled at in the street, such hateful language! I have been touched inappropriately more times than I care to remember...

If someone had said to me - at my darkest times - "here you go. You don't have to be a girl. Take these tablets and just say you're a boy and voila!" I swear I think I might have done it 😔😔

The whole self ID debate is about far more than the erosion of women's rights - important as that is - it's about the abuse of young vulnerable people

And not one political party has the sense or decency to tackle this nonsense

Biology isn't bigotry

mrsreynolds · 28/03/2018 19:11

Sorry.

But self ID is my line in the sand.

Brexit is a clusterfuck but....self IF could lead to the end of women's rights and a damaged generation.

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 19:22

mrsreyonlds you are preaching to the converted...

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RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 19:25

Anna Soubry MP @ anna_soubry
@JWoodcockMP is very welcome to come and join us in the naughty corner of the Chamber

How about, you all shuffle off to a new corner on opposition benches...

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ALittleAubergine · 28/03/2018 19:25

I think I would still vote labour based on current policies. I don't agree with all of them but mostly yes. Ld would be my other choice.

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 19:29

Paul Waugh @ paulwaugh
NEW: Barnet's Labour group leader says Corbyn has a 'blind spot' on anti-semitism that risks costing the party Jewish votes as it tries to topple the Tories in the flagship council.
m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/jeremy-corbyns-blind-spot-on-anti-semitism-risks-jewish-support-barnet-councils-labour-leader-warns-barry-rawlings_uk_5abbd7e3e4b06409775c80f3/?5vh=&__twitter_impression=true
Jeremy Corbyn’s ‘Blind Spot’ On Anti-Semitism Risks Jewish Support, Barnet Council’s Labour Leader Warns
Local Labour group leader blogs for HuffPost

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mybrainhurtsalot · 28/03/2018 19:39

There’s an interesting comment in this article:
www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2018/03/what-would-be-good-night-conservatives-2018-local-elections

“In addition, the party did worse in constituencies with significant Jewish populations. In fact, had Labour performed as well in those areas than it did in other urban areas, it would now be in Downing Street, albeit with an incredibly fragile parliamentary position.”

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2018 20:00

Stopping the anti-Semitism would be politically a win for Labour:

It's not just the morally decent decision; it would gain them key marginals.

It also wouldn't lose Muslim votes:
contrary to what some on the hard left think, very few Muslims Labour voters would be attracted by anti-semitism.
In fact it is more likely to repel them.

e.g. Sadiq reaching out to Jewish leaders on his first day in office probably earned him future votes from Jewish Londoners who were rather alarmed by a Muslim mayor, but did him no harm among Muslim voters.

Unless Labour think there are a significant number of white Nazi votes to be won ? Hopefully not.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2018 20:04

A handy reminder of the Govt's Brexit fantasies & promises, who said them … and how reality intervened

www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2018/mar/28/11-brexit-promises-leavers-quietly-dropped

mrsreynolds · 28/03/2018 20:05

I think labour HQ are all on fucking glue

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2018 20:13

Interesting perspective that Russia is not always trying to push particular outcomes in the West, but rather to create chaos.

https://www.byline.com/column/67/article/2010

Byline suggests this is why Farage called for a 2nd referendum
also why a large number ofRussian bots are now pushing for a United Ireland, after persuading the DUP to move some money for them

Sweden's election apparently very much a target for Russian hackers, like in Germany, France etc

RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 20:43

BigChoc, I have to say that chaos theory is the one thing that I keep in mind with Wylie in particular. He also is very vocal about pushing for a second ref. More so than you might expect for a leave sympathiser even if he is one who has somehow come to his senses.

If the purpose is to disrupt democracy rather than anything else, a last minute push for remain, might be the thing to encourage, rather than discourage as counter intuitive as it might sound.

You then create a double win situation. If the UK stay in, then its damaging to democratic trust if the uk leaves then yay money laudering and data crime.

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RedToothBrush · 28/03/2018 20:46

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
Latest YouGov voting intention - here at 10pm

Translation: ive had a sneaky peak and its worth turning in for later says sam coates. No prizes for guessing the direction of travel.

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woman11017 · 28/03/2018 21:59

am Coates Times

Verified account

@SamCoatesTimes
EXC: Tories consolidate gains with 4 point lead over Labour, according to new Times/YouGov poll taken on Monday-Tuesday this week

Tory lead up 1 point from 11 days previously.

Tories 43 (+1)
Lab 39 (-)
LD 8 (+1)
Other 11 (-1)

mrsreynolds · 28/03/2018 22:01

Just....mind boggling 😣

woman11017 · 28/03/2018 22:04

Well.....
@SamCoatesTimes
BREAKING: Christine Shawcroft, head of Labour’s internal disputes panel has QUIT tonight after The Times obtained an email she wrote on Sunday revealing her opposition to the suspension of a council candidate who posted an article on Facebook which called the Holocaust a “hoax”

But it's a right pickle MrsR that's for sure.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/03/2018 22:04

So is that the NHS pay rise?

No-one cares about sneaky data use and election expenses fraud clearly.

Dobby1sAFreeElf · 28/03/2018 22:09

If Havering Tories do something bad, they're at least going to bring someone down with them. Johnson it seems. They've also recently had Hunt and Dorries round too.

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/28/boris-johnson-urged-to-apologise-for-attending-racist-campaign-launch