Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision

[RedToothBrush]

Yet it is a great mistake to suppose that the only writers who matter are those whom the educated in their saner moments can take seriously. There exists a subterranean world where pathological fantasies disguised as ideas are churned out by crooks and half-educated fanatics for the benefit of the ignorant and the superstitious. There are times when this underworld emerges from the depths and suddenly fascinates, capturers and dominates multitudes of usually sane and responsible people, who thereupon take leave of sanity and responsibility. And it occasionally happens that this underworld becomes a political power and changes the course of history.
Norm Cohn ‘Warrant for Genocide’ 1970

(As referenced by Nick Cohen).

We have a deal (or bits of a deal). Bino til Dec 2020. Then the cliff?

Still a long way to go. It sounds better than it could be. But worse than it initially seems.

I think the revelation of Sanni's sexuality was collateral fallout of Parkinson's attempts to protect himself rather than a motivation or intimidation tactic.

As soon as the whistleblowing happened he is bound to have gone to his manager surely and said i dated that guy for 18 months and now he is blowing the whistle.

Prettybird, that's interesting about Peston. In some ways I agree with him. I think there are also a significant number of people who ordinarily would be quite moderate in most of their views but are being pushed to a corner now and feel the need to harden their views more aggressively, ending up in either hard left or hard right corner. I wouldn't be surprised if there were big numbers of people who feel that all these accusations about Russia, CA, dodgy money and any personal accusations directed at politicians are just a distraction and an attempt to discredit opponents rather than anything serious.

I did think of the Backlash effect (posted about earlier in this thread, but discussed a number of times on Westministenders) during the Peston evening. But as I was there with dh and ds (ds at 17 was the youngest one there by a country mile), I wasn't going to embarrass ds by asking a question about its potential role in Brexit he'd have killed me

Otto English
‏*@Otto*_English
So @IsabelOakeshott demanded evidence from @carolecadwalla that there was a link between Leave EU and Cambridge Analytica and insisted herself there wasn't one... and yet... who is this journalist writing in 2015 .. and what's this... oh.. #marr

[it's not letting me attach the photos so here's the link twitter.com/Otto_English/status/978157827427635201 ]

Ha ha! Busted! Seriously, why do these loons go around denying the dots can be joined when they've made the same allegations themselves? It's hard to say whether that such zealots they feel morally obliged to defend any story made against their "side" or if they're just really thick or if they think the public is so thick that no one will check up on them. Whichever way you read it, it shows an utter contempt for the truth (and probably The People they claim to support).

It's just a pity that she was exposed on air!

Chris Mullin
@chrismullinexmp
Sorry to see Jewish leaders ganging up on Corbyn. Far less anti-semitism in the Labour Party than in other parts of society and in some other political parties. Suspect it has more to do with criticism of Israel than anti-semitism.

I don’t know if this thread is of any use misti

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=mobile.twitter.com/Mendelpol/status/978009855477809153" target="_blank">https://mobile.twitter.com/Mendelpol/status/9780098554778091533^

Yes I read that earlier. Some of that thread is reaching a bit, but there is plenty to be concerned about.

Plus, anyone who is a regular on twitter will have seen the regular antisemitic dog whistles from left wing accounts that appear to be real people with Labour connections.

Sometimes it's careless speech - I have a friend on FB who is very passionate about the Palestinian cause and he has occasionally said things that would be easy to take out of context and paint in a very sinister light, even though I am 100% certain that his issues are with the Israeli state and not with Jewish people.

The left has to be extremely careful about this - there is an objective difference between a political party whose USP is tolerance using antisemitic dogwhistles (or worse), and the same behaviour by a party that has never pretended to be tolerant.

Kevin Schofield @ polhomeeditor
If the Board of Deputies of British Jews and the Jewish Leadership Council say they don't know anything about meeting Jeremy Corbyn, which groups is he meant to be speaking to about anti-Semitism in the next few days?

jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/jewish-community-leaders-indicate-they-will-refuse-to-meet-corbyn/
Jewish leaders refuse to meet Corbyn as relations reach new low
Representative of a major communal body offered an unequivocal ‘no’ when asked if they would take up an offer to meet – as relations plummet to a new low

Some are speculating he will meet with JVL (Jewish Voice for Labour) who are a very small group and are known for being pro-Corbyn. Comments are along the lines, of it this is who he means it will be an insult as they are not reflective of the who community. It would be a bit like meeting Jewish Momentum and saying, see I'm not anti-semitist cos token jews.

We shall see. Quite something to see Jewish community leaders refusing to meet though.

Linda Grant @ lindasgrant
I don't think Corbyn is anti-semitic. He just doesn't notice or recognise or acknowledge anti-semitism until it's shoved in his face with patient explanations for what's wrong with it and even then he doesn't think it's particularly important and issues a boiler plate statement.

Charitable version. After you've read thread Mistigri links to.

order-order.com/2018/03/26/corbyn-personally-joined-third-anti-semitic-facebook-group/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Guido going on about a third facebook AntiSemitic group and corbyn.

I'll try and have a dig around and try and find out if it has been reported what Jewish Labour MP colleagues think of Corbyn's stance when I get a sec. They are more likely to have inside knowledge.

Meanwhile on the bloody ridiculous blue passport thing, on YouGov they reported the outcome of their survey on where passports should be made...OMG

Only 29% thought passports should be produced by the company that offers the best price or service, even it if is not in the UK .

Nearly half 49% thought they should be produced by a UK company, even if overseas companies offer better prices or services.

22% didn't know.

I despair.

Alex Sobel whose parent came form Israel getting some JC support here?

jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/jeremy-corbyn-condemns-appalling-anti-semitic-abuse-at-jewish-mp/

Luciana Berger MP , who is Jewish, was clearly critical of Corbyn over the mural.

Ruth Smeeth said at a meeting of the Jewish Labour Movement in early September 2017 that she had weekly meetings with Jeremy Corbyn. According to her, JC is incredibly uncomfortable with the allegations antisemitism in the Labour Party as they turn his "whole political being upside down" .She also said it was much easier to try and put that in a box and pretend it's not happening. Interviewed by Charlotte Edwardes for the London Evening Standard in September 2016, she said antisemitic incidents were rare while Ed Miliband was Labour's leader.

Nearly half 49% thought they should be produced by a UK company, even if overseas companies offer better prices or services.

This sounds like a silly and dishonest question to ask in a survey tbh.

Most people don't know anything about public procurement (tbh you could write what I know - if not on the back of a stamp - then on the back of a postcard). So if you ask people leading questions on complex technical issues you will get simplistic answers that sound stupid to qualified people.

It's not unreasonable to have the opinion that it is appropriate for a government to print passports in-house (which obv means in-country) even if this is more expensive - there are potentially legitimate reasons for making this choice. A survey which included this as an option would look rather different.

Latest response from MP. Btw - I always email him and he always responds by post.

My research is showing up that most jewish Labour MP's do want more to be done to address the problem.Examples follow:

-After JC's speech to the Labour Party Conference,

Gillian Merron MP said: “After disgraceful anti-Jewish incidents at the conference, and the opportunity provided by Labour’s adoption of more specific rules on antisemitism, Jeremy Corbyn’s speech was a missed opportunity to address specifically the issue of antisemitism.
"It was also troubling that Jeremy Corbyn made reference to what he called the ‘oppression of the Palestinian people’ without mentioning terrorist attacks, like the recent cold blooded murder of three Israelis."

-Also Ivan Lewis www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/ivan-lewis-anti-semitism-jeremy-11321237

she said antisemitic incidents were rare while Ed Miliband was Labour's leader.
I suspect part of this is down to the glorious post referendum world where some people feel more emboldened to say publicly what they were thinking privately. Only part though.

Sam Coates Times @ samcoatestimes
Theresa May has full confidence in her political secretary Stephen Parkinson, No10 say

Re Mark Pawsley's stock answer. Have the Govt agreed on N Ireland? If so, it escapes me.

Talkstotrees

"Free and fair".

Did you mention Russian Bots, Cambridge Analytica and election funding payments to BeLeave in your letter?

Also the question in the passport survey was " When it comes to new blue passports, which comes closer to your view?"

Adam Wagner @ adamwagner1
1/ I’m sounding the alarm🚨. After Brexit is done, the European Convention on Human Rights is the next target for those who drove the Leave movement. And it may well be successful [THREAD]
2/ In amongst the row over whether the Leave Campaign spent beyond legal limits was a blog post published yesterday by Dominic Cummings containing this chilling statement
[Reference to referendum to leave the ECHR]
3/ Cummings was the campaign director of Vote Leave. So he can’t be ignored. And it makes total sense, if you follow the logic of the Leave Campaign. I’ll explain why.
4/ The key messages of the Leave campaign were taking back ‘control’ and ‘sovereignty’ from the ‘undemocratic’ international institutions which make up the EU.
5/ One of the surprising focusses of the Leave Campaign’s ire was the European Court of Justice. Surprising because do people really care about an international court which, in most lawyers’ eyes, is usually (though not always) sensible and not perverse?
6/ it turned out that the European Court of Justice, which is nothing to do with the European Court of Human Rights (see t.co/N58LQKTb08), was an effective target. Michael Gove and Boris (backed by his QC wife Marina Wheeler) regularly railed against it
7/ The European Convention is a treaty which the UK was central in drafting (see t.co/AMkPeSwipF). It's is overseen by an international court in Strasbourg. The idea there should be international standards but with wriggle room for individual states’ history and culture t.co/AmaMCXavOT
8/ The European Convention on Human Rights is extremely important to the people of the UK and Europe (see t.co/4zAcTqlcBf). But it is not well-understood or particularly popular in the UK
9/ The reason for this is mostly the hostile tabloid press which have over decades “monstered” human rights and made it seem as if they only protect terrorists and paedophiles. That is wrong, but loads of research shows the belief is now pretty well-entrenched
10/ So. If Cummings is telling the truth and they are “coming for the ECHR”, how likely is BrECHRit? Well, the political will is there. Theresa May is a long-time critic of the European Convention. Only a few loud “Runnymead” Tories would actively oppose
11/ And as I said, we are a long way away from widespread support in the UK for the ECHR, just as we were a long way away from widespread support for the EU before the Referendum. So the conditions are similar. I’m worried.
12/ We need to get active. We need to get ahead of this. To focus on a wide hearts and minds campaign, appealing to people's emotions - which the tabloid press do so well. Please sign up to t.co/yyEuTKvEXU to keep informed about what to do! /END^

George Peretz QC @ GeorgePeretzqc
Great thread. And Tories who favour leaving the ECHR take note: it’s Article 1 Protocol 1 of the ECHR that’s the main legal obstacle to nationalisation without proper compensation. And Article 10 to Government regulation of anti-Corbyn newspapers. Be careful what you wish for.

Also the question in the passport survey was " When it comes to new blue passports, which comes closer to your view?"

I'd say it's quite problematic framing a complex question in that way, while not giving respondants the only other option that is legal under international trade law.

(I have a market research qualification - I don't know much about public procurement but I do know a bit about asking the right questions).

Paul Danahar
‏*@pdanahar*
Breaking: A total of 60 Russians will face expulsion from US after poisoning scandal in UK. Forty-eight are from the Russian embassy in Washington and the others are at the UN in New York.

And

Laura Kuenssberg
@bbclaurak
So it starts... reports that Germany has expelled four Russian diplomats, Poland, Latvia and Lithuania have also summoned their ambassadors

The man with the worst job in Whitehall quits: The man tasked with solving NI border quits. Apparently it's not connected to the impossibility of the brief...

lala, no, I'm sure it's just a coincidence...

Fuck.

NO ONE wants to deal with it, do they? Understandably, of course.