Westminstenders: Exit 2020 Vision

[RedToothBrush]

Yet it is a great mistake to suppose that the only writers who matter are those whom the educated in their saner moments can take seriously. There exists a subterranean world where pathological fantasies disguised as ideas are churned out by crooks and half-educated fanatics for the benefit of the ignorant and the superstitious. There are times when this underworld emerges from the depths and suddenly fascinates, capturers and dominates multitudes of usually sane and responsible people, who thereupon take leave of sanity and responsibility. And it occasionally happens that this underworld becomes a political power and changes the course of history.
Norm Cohn ‘Warrant for Genocide’ 1970

(As referenced by Nick Cohen).

We have a deal (or bits of a deal). Bino til Dec 2020. Then the cliff?

Still a long way to go. It sounds better than it could be. But worse than it initially seems.

Yes, the (potential forthcoming) loss of EU funding for the arts in general in this country is something that has been massively under-emphasised, IMHO.

Pretzel that last sentence says more about you than me ( sigh)

I think we saw this one a while back, but here we are again:
www.theredroar.com/2018/03/revealed-labour-leave-campaign-was-funded-by-ukip-and-tory-donors/

woman Yes. And there is sometimes quite the overlap between RT-type tweets, Russian troll-bot stories and Momentum social media - both in style and content. Personally, I think it's utterly corrosive. ultimately, it makes social media unpleasant and destabilises its communicative force.

I have something to say about that with regard to posters I've noticed on MN (particularly on the poisoning threads). I'm not too sure how far I can go without falling foul of MN guidelines. But I've noticed that there seems to be more work going into producing a bit of a posting history now - which makes them tricky to flag up with MNHQ.

woman That bears repeating.

BlueEyeshadow Yes. Just yes.

.

woman That should shame any Labour MP associated with Labour Leave and give pause for thought for any Lexiter. And it should make any pro-Brexit position for Labour toxic.

I think we spotted that funding stream to labour from Leave, a wee while back on these threads, cat , it's shoddy stuff, but with a divisive cross party referendum, to be expected.

Labour will table amendments to the government’s EU withdrawal bill aimed at preventing the UK from crashing out of Europe without a deal if parliament rejects the outcome of the Brexit talks, Keir Starmer will say on Monday.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/25/labour-wants-to-amend-brexit-bill-to-give-parliament-more-say

The labour hashtag about guessing the next smear about Corbyn is the final insult. I think Labour just blew it completely, this weekend.

Woman Yes, you did.

Helen Lewis is tweeting about the consequences of Corbynista tweeting at the moment - the appalling hatgate and the terrible 'nextCorbynsmear'. I'm afraid I don;t have the stamina to post her comments - but they're spot on.

All I can keep saying - to myself as much as anyone else - is that if moderates leave over this, it leaves the Labour Party to these people. And they don't deserve it. It's not theirs.

But I say that knowing that people have very, very few options to express how unacceptable this is. It is unacceptable. All of it.

Including the useless position on Brexit. Well, I'll wait to see what happens on Monday. I suspect I will remain disappointed.

Pretzel that last sentence says more about you than me ( sigh)
I'm afraid it really doesn't. I'm not the one whose response to the loss of places in an international orchestra was 'oh well - we have national ones, they can play there.' I am simply responding to your last two hours worth of posts. You have taken the position that the loss of the EU youth orchestra is no big deal - whilst simultaneously claiming to be passionate about music. That's not any kind of passion I recognise.

sorry - I forgot to add my sigh. We can all passive aggressively sigh sigh

You know, I'm struck all over again by how damaging 'austerity' - the unnecessary, ideological practice - has been for the UK. I think future historians will name that as the single biggest force in producing the nightmare we're in at the moment.

What an absolute mess.

I really think you should be able to see that there is a difference between beating the best of Europe for a place in an all-Europe orchestra and beating the best of the UK to a place in an all-UK orchestra, Sostenueto.

The difference being that there is far more top notch competition in a much bigger arena where players are drawn from countries with hundreds of years worth of tradition in classical music.

What you are saying is that the UK youth classical music scene is as good as the whole of the EU put together, and I strongly suspect this is not true.

The way I'm seeing the situation with brexit and the whole political landscape at the moment, is that people have pretty much picked a side by now and it's very hard, if not impossible, to change anyone's mind. Especially with all the news about CA, social media, media bias, lies from this and that side etc. We're so divided that it's hard to see how we will ever get back to a more moderate, centralist majority.

I agree, Aubergine.
I suspect the mushrooming of doubts about financing, Momentum bots, and psy-ops will only leave a morass of cynicism in its wake instead of any zeal to get to the bottom of it. I think the UK has moved into a very toxic climate where public opinion is concerned.

I'm confused Sostenueto - you've stated previously that you voted Leave because of the lack of information (in itself very ) yet you say you are not a Leaver. Have you or have you not changed your mind? Because the majority of your posts suggest you haven't really - in which case you are indeed still a Leaver

Not a label, a fact - according to your own words. You voted Leave. You may or may not still believe in the arguments. You may or may not now be having regrets - in which case why keep arguing that losing European musical opportunities is ok "because you were ok in the 60s"? So it's ok now to be bound by British boundaries? Not to aspire to join a bigger, more international organisation?

I am genuinely confused.

Since I support neither Labour nor the Tories, can any one tell me, do they really think that Labour is more antisemitic than the Tories? I strongly suspect that both parties have equal numbers holding those views.

I thought Sostenueto had previously said they didn’t vote at all.

I cancelled my DD payments to the Labour party in January and tore up my card (minor cathartic act). It was a decision I made after a few months of agony but mainly precipitated by that precocious little twerp, Lily Madigan.

A few weeks ago Labour called asking why I left. I said there were myriad reasons, the most pressing being the current views and positioning of the labour party leadership on women and women's rights in perpetuity. Their response?

"Ok bye"

Don't trust this party to do anything that doesn't serve their own views.

It’s the European Union Youth Orchestra - the clue is in the name. If the UK will no longer be a member of the EU then UK musicians will no longer be eligible (unless the UK negotiates yet another opt in). Not discrimination, just another consequence of Brexit.

Yep the clue is in the title of the orchestra. So there you go. I've asked for post to be took off anyway. Its all so boring going on about it. I'm sure this thread will be full of the labour leave campaign and anti semetic labour party which is much more important and is in most of the headlines in today's papers.

I have something to say about that with regard to posters I've noticed on MN (particularly on the poisoning threads). I'm not too sure how far I can go without falling foul of MN guidelines. But I've noticed that there seems to be more work going into producing a bit of a posting history now - which makes them tricky to flag up with MNHQ
I've noticed that too, some are better than others, but there are patterns to posting that recur.

I've noticed that too Dobby. What is the purpose though? There isn't an election or referendum imminent?

Since I support neither Labour nor the Tories, can any one tell me, do they really think that Labour is more antisemitic than the Tories? I strongly suspect that both parties have equal numbers holding those views.

The only unfair thing about the antisemitism saga is that only Labour is in the spotlight. There was a Tory caught dressing up as a nazi ffs!

But reading the allegations I do think there is a problem, and it's not being addressed properly because Corbyn's handlers are part of the problem.

I was struck during the French election by the extent to which the twitter left used antisemitic dog whistles in opposition to macron ("Rothschild" being used as a code word for Jew) - and this was as true for English-speaking Labour-supporting accounts as for the moronic Mélenchon ni-ni crowd in France.