Aibu to despair

[DorothyL]

Talking to some people tonight who are fluent in European languages, widely travelled, worldliwise -

and they said Barnier's stubbornness and the EU's tone is ruining everything.

Ffs

I give up

oh dear. They think Barnier sticking to the guidelines handed to him by the elected heads of all the member states is ruining everything. And the upholding of the treaties and framework which the UK helped create is now raining on their unrealistic expectations.

I'm sure they are happy for the UK to still benefit from the trade deals between the EU and other countries. Even if those other countries were unhappy the EU wasn't easy to walk all over either.

The EU is doing everything that people who knew about the EU said it would do. It is treating Brexit as a legal process not a students' union debate, and it is looking after its own interests. As it should.

If British voters have their collective head too far up their collective arse to see this, then I am afraid that they deserve everything they get.

(Speaking as a Briton who didn't get a vote in the ref and is in the most affected group)

Assuming you are ffs'ing your friends and despairing because they're so ignorant of the actual facts. ?

YABU. Sounds like the people you are speaking to have it about right. Very hopeful sign.

howabout could you explain why you think Barnier is being stubborn?

What could he do differently?

Also, why does the EUs ‘tone’ make any difference?

And finally why any of the OP ‘is s hopeful sign’?

For someone who claims to be a lawyer it astounds me that your thoughts seem very much to be based on a wing and a prayer rather than facts, logic and precedent.

It's not an explainy type thread bear. Ask the Op's erudite contacts.

YANBU

Funny that none of the threads are the ‘explainy type’ isn’t it?

What makes this ‘not explainy’?

They’re right. & everyone knows it.

surfer they really don’t ‘know it’

That’s on account of the fact you can’t explain why it should be any different except that ‘we’re special’

The EU are desperate for Brexit to fail Bear why do you think that is?

They are not ‘desperate’ for it to fail.

We are ‘desperate’ for it to succeed despite putting no effort in to make it thus.

We are just relying on your arrogant assumption that it’ll be fine because we’re special

Prominent Polish politician Radoslaw Sikorski said the results of the Italian and German elections prove there is a huge anti-EU movement and the success of Brexit could lead to more countries voting to leave the EU

Mr Sikorski, the former minister of national defence in Poland, was asked whether other EU countries will follow the same path as Britain if Brexit is a success

He told students at the University of Greenwich: “Sure. I mean, we’ve just got a result in Italy where right-wing anti-EU parties have the majority of the vote

Just accept it Bear - the EU is finished.

Poland - not exactly a core EU member, or a shinging example of a western democracy.

not a shining example either.

Just accept it surfer you’re getting BINO and there’s nothing you can do about it because your ‘side’ were so ill prepared for actually winning they screwed it right up and now there’s no other option.

Whatever Bear
But it doesn’t take much working out does it. If Brexit is a success other EU Countries will folllow. Europe is watching & waiting.
That’s why they want us to fail.

It’s all basic stuff. No endless links necessary.

If I believed we were getting BINO I wouldn't be despairing. Not happy - but not despairing. Add in that a Plaid Cymru Lord has added an amendment that British citizens not lose their EU citizenship after Brexit (and the fact the Guy Verhofstad has been quite supportive of that stance) I could even see my way clear to stop worrying about the whole thing and just get on with my life.

Unfortunately I don't believe in BINO or continued EU citizenship - I believe in a crash out, back to day one - no trading agreements with anywhere in the world come March 30th 2019 and the ensuing chaos (if not all out war) that will follow that.

And whilst the arrogance of some voters viewpoints - and their stubborn belief that our decision to leave is somehow the fault and responsibility of the EU - is so irritating and embarrassing that I'm getting to the point that I will quite enjoy watching them as their world crumbles around their ears... the fact that they will still blame the EU and the remoaners and never take any fucking responsibility for their own unbelievably stupid choices does fill me very much with despair.

But yes OP -YANBU. When people who really should no better -don't. What hope is there for any of us?

surfer the day you and other Leavers realise that everything is not just about the UK will be a milestone.

The EU aren’t as insecure as you make out.

We are nowhere near as special as you make out.

We deserve to fall flat on our face for relying on ‘the empire’ mentality.

If Brexit is a success other EU Countries will folllow.

Exiting the EU will be much harder (if one can imagine anything more difficult and pointless than what we're going through!) for countries who a part of a single currency.
It would be unthinkable and pretty much undoable.
No matter how sunlit our uplands turn out to be (extreme sarcasm) all other EU governments have to do is point out that it was different for us because we retained the pound. If exit is clearly a visible threat to voters money - they won't go for it.
Add in the fact that other countries don;t have a rabid, billionaire owned right wing press spitting poison out every day ...and you'll find that most EU citizens don't actually want to leave - even if they could, even if it was easy.

This is a particularly British tragedy - made up from an unregulated press, our own currency and nostalgia for empire 2.0. It won;t happen elsewhere and we do not have the power to bring down the EU27.
Brexiteers do not have a handle on reality.

Time will tell.

In the meantime, I suggest you chill out.

That's your answer? To the most difficult and important political upheaval that this country has been through since the second world war? Time will tell and chill out?

You do get why remainers are so very angry right? That not only have you voted to break everything and take their rights away - you have no fucking clue of how to put it back together and so just hand wave - oh time will tell. Yes it fucking will - and what then?

I’m actually quite chilled surfer

I’m getting BINO which is the least worst option.

You’re getting sold down the river.

Exiting the EU will be much harder (if one can imagine anything more difficult and pointless than what we're going through!) for countries who a part of a single currency.

Apparently the Italians are pondering a parallel currency, so that would be a route.

Cannot believe you suggested bear chill surfer. Now I want to post a link to The Bear Necessities.

howabout you really aren’t doing your profession any good.

Isn’t it a lawyers job to weigh up fact and precedent?

You are doing neither.