The Brexit Arms

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No kicking off on this thread!!!

Bear has kindly set up another (non-pub) thread, so that leaves this one free for the Brexiteers!!!

Good speech by Theresa May today - onwards to Brexit 🍻🇬🇧

Sorry double
On Talkin point, I noticed Theresa May said no FOM but then said we would control immigration so it best served the expansion of UK economy. We would make sure to provide the right numbers need to keep Britain growing.
Sounds like She/government are dropping the less than 90000 immigrants and we could end up with more immigrants then now
I have no problem with that has long as we provide training for our own citizens as well.
I wonder how that will go down with certain Tory/Ukip voters

People think that faith because it's quite unbelievable you are willing to harm the country as much as Brexit is going to, for the few EU migrants who play the system.

The assumption is you can't be that stupid therefore it must be all migrants you have a problem with.

If it's not the could you explain how you think the 'cost' of a few migrants who buck the system is anyway proportionate to the 'cost' of Brexit.

The assumption is you can't be that stupid therefore it must be all* migrants you have a problem with.

If it's not the could you explain how you think the 'cost' of a few migrants who buck the system is anyway proportionate to the 'cost' of Brexit.*

I do not have a problem with immigrants.

I have always understood why the UK is an attractive place to come, and I hope that we continue to be an attractive place & I welcome immigration.

I would, however like to see controls on our immigration & I would prefer it to be a level playing field for all, not skewed in favour of the EU.

This has been explained countless times on these threads by me and others.

We're leaving the single digital market as well. The one where we are would leaders. Now I know TM is stupid. www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/02/no-you-don-t-have-leave-single-market-renationalise

But it makes absolutely no sense faith

We always could control immigration more than we chose to.

Everyone of these sought after trade deals with other countries are going to involve more immigrants; just look at India's first reaction.

What was so bad that it's worth this ridiculous limbo Brexit we're heading for where we pay for access and have to abide by rules we no longer have a say in?

Can I ask a probably really stupid question. Bugging me all day
Theress May yesterday in her speech and Liam Fox on Tuesday both said being tied to EU SM/CU or the EEA would stop us doing our own FTA outside.
But the EFTA countries (i know I am obessed by them, sorry) have a FTA with South Korea. I know so do EU.
But here's the kicker for May/Fox EU came in force 2011. EFTA's signed in 2005.
So the SM/CU and EEA members of EFTA did a FTA first and on it's own whilst been in EEA.
So my question is why couldn't a non EU member UK government?
I think I must be misding something or is it idealogy. I would happy accept leaving, as a remain voter under EFTA rules
Sorry to derail nazi talk

I would, however like to see controls on our immigration & I would prefer it to be a level playing field for all, not skewed in favour of the EU.
Why?
What difference does it make where people come from if they are coming here to work?
I'm non EU of course

The joy of FOM is that the seasonal workers bog off back to their home countries when there is no work.
If they are shelling out thousands for a visa, they will stay here and claim benefits when there is no work ....

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation

You know what if you feel confident enough to quote Nazis you do that. If you feel you have sufficient grasp of history that you will not use the quote incorrectly, go ahead. If you feel quoting one of the most evil men of the last century to make a small point is relevant and worthwhile, do it.

I tend not to quote Nazis unless it is unavoidable or I am using it to teach history.

I would warn anyone to be careful, I think it is good advice. I listen to advice.

If we can learn anything from this period of history it is that Europe is safer when working together. A Europe divided is a bad, bad thing.

Sorry back again Free trade deal with Canada from 2009, EU 2016 was it. Mexico was 2000, the EU was 1997.
Which proves we can do deals seperately to EU in the same countries.
Also individual countries have different individual deals with the likes of China, so not rven tied to EFTA. Sorry I don't know what to make of the governments stance.

User147
The EFTA countries (Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland) are teeny
and by the looks of it www.efta.int/free-trade/free-trade-agreements/korea Korea wanted fish and finance
The EU is a rather bigger beast
and as I keep trying to say - Free Trade Agreements are not a magic bullet
they are one of the ways that countries trade
and tend to take years and years of haggling and compromise.

EFTA - not so bad.

EEA - concedes too much sovereignty, and keeps FoM.

Faithhope
Why are you so anti FoM?

Why do you want Brits to have their access to Europe to work, learn and play so restricted?

Why do you want the pensioners dotted all over Yerp to have to come home and need more care workers we do not have ?

You know what if you feel confident enough to quote Nazis you do that. If you feel you have sufficient grasp of history that you will not use the quote incorrectly, go ahead. If you feel quoting one of the most evil men of the last century to make a small point is relevant and worthwhile, do it.

I do have a sufficient grasp of history.

I did not 'use the quote incorrectly'.

I quoted 3 (not one) of the most evil men of the last century to make a rather large point (not a small one): that invoking 'Nazi!' with scant thought is ridiculous - there are quotes to be found from all people, both great & evil alike that can be used to support agendas.

I would warn anyone to be careful,

I ask again - 'be careful' of what?

Faithhope
Why are you so anti FoM?

Have answered this countless times.
So have others on these threads.

Faith, you didn't answer the next two questions though:

'Why do you want Brits to have their access to Europe to work, learn and play so restricted?'

'Why do you want the pensioners dotted all over Yerp to have to come home?'

I'm very interested in hearing your answers.

I am anti FOM because it is racist. It is skewed towards white Christians rather than the general population of the rest of the world.

Lol double you are exactly who I thought you were; the above line was her mantra!

Could you explain why you are so unhappy with the treatment on non-white Christians that it's worth this half arsed version of Eu membership we are heading for which costs us in every way imaginable?

there are quotes to be found from all people, both great & evil alike that can be used to support agendas.

Here's an example of such quotes, on the subject of the unemployed, by someone who is revered in our society:

"if the men do not, and cannot [find work] this must be either because there is no work...or because they are inefficient. If the men are inefficient, then they cannot be left at large to bring up in semi-starvation fresh generations of inefficients...[there must be] the means of separating from society those who are clearly unfit to belong thereto - something corresponding to the penal colonies in Belgium and Switzerland. This is for the 'unemployable' who perhaps cannot be made good again".

Sorry talkin
But I am trying to think out of the box( is that right)
EFTA members are non EU and independant trading countries.
That what brexitters say they want so we can do FTA.
Irish solution needs custom agreement
Well you get both in EFTA
Non EU, can do your own FTA and also in EEA so Ireland sorted
*after all when we brexit we will need to do FTA on our own. At least EFTA have some knowledge
Sure its not remain you, bear and others want. But it got to be better than the dog's dinner/pigs ear Theresa May and co are making of brexit. Completed by 2019
If necessary sold as first step away. Becsuse we completely balls up brexiting. Using 3 brexitters

'Why do you want Brits to have their access to Europe to work, learn and play so restricted?'

It will be restricted in so far as they can still do those things, but with the relevant paperwork.
What is so horrific about needing a visa?

Why do you want the pensioners dotted all over Yerp to have to come home?'

Do I?

I don't want all the EU citizens currently living & working here sent away - and I have never said that I do, so why ask me about pensioners?

If the EU decide to purge the remaining member countries of UK citizens, then that is up to them.

Non EU, can do your own FTA and also in EEA so Ireland sorted

EEA means freedom of movement & ceding too much sovereignty.

FOM is racists so let's stop it and have none? Essentially that's what you seem to be saying.
So my dd won't be able to do the erasmus scheme or alternatively go to uni in Holland and save £5K per year on tuition fees because of your own ( and various other views on FOM)
It just seems a different form of prejudice. My niece voted leave because she hates French people, I know other people who voted leave because they hate Germans or Polish people.
I know plenty of people who voted leave who haven't got a prejudiced bone in their body.
But that's why it's never going to work. Too many people want different things out of it and as TM said yesterday, it's not going to be as good as we have now.

EFTA doesn't sort Ireland precisely because it is outside the Customs Union.

What is so horrific about needing a visa?
Visas can be and often are refused/rescinded/delayed to the point where their issue is no longer useful to the person requiring one. Which adds to the drain, which has already started, of people from the UK who find that it is now much more sensible to base themselves in a country that affords the ability to move around more quickly.

If the EU decide to purge the remaining member countries of UK citizens, then that is up to them.

'purge' is an interesting choice of word.

It would be up to the UK rather than the EU, inasmuch as the UK will have to decide whether or not to accept the deal we are offered by the EU. And I'd bet my bottom dollar that if the UK sticks to its guns about ending FOM, the EU will (utterly reasonably) require that that be reciprocal.

Theworld it is possible to participate in Erasmus outside EU and without FoM. Similar schemes exist for exchanging students all over the World.

Question the ethics of studying abroad to avoid home Uni fees (but I would say that being in Scotland). However without having to grant equal access to all EU students to UK's Unis the case for charging the highest fees in the World coupled with limitless places diminishes somewhat.