The Brexit Arms

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No kicking off on this thread!!!

Bear has kindly set up another (non-pub) thread, so that leaves this one free for the Brexiteers!!!

Good speech by Theresa May today - onwards to Brexit 🍻🇬🇧

If we don't want a custom union, and Turkey's is the only 3rd party one I can find.
But FTA with EU they don't have CU or agreements.
So surely we if we get a special custom's agreement, we will either not get the FTA we want or will be Turkey and stuck to the tariffs etc we argree with EU
I know its boring. But the EU doesn't do these agreements. So what are you expecting it to do?
Because it will either be a FTA like Canada or Customs agreement like Turkey.
but the leavers and TM want neither. So what do we want which isn't Canada, Norway or Turkey
Because, if I am a danger of getting on your wick's I can't find another option available to any non EU country. That's us in 2019/21

Sorry I am off for a real life beer

English or Belgian ?

We're not going to get a deal with the USA any time soon and I don't know any leaver who realistically thinks that's going to 'replace any lost trade with the EU'. But the point is if we have a FTA with the EU then there is no need to be going to the USA for a quick deal that we would almost certainly regret.
User - the point is you won't find any of this about a trade deal we could do with the EU by googling as no one has done one before. There isn't an off the shelf template to look at. We are not Canada or Turkey we are a much bigger economy then them. We want a FTA and a customs arrangement.

Talkin
Its Heatherwood craft beer
The purple panther (porter)
Says brewed and bottled Uk
I love Belgian and Swedish ciders though.
Most be my drinking tastes which encouraged my liking for the EFTA.
Thanks to rufus for suggest earlier

Doubletrouble
Canada is bigger than South Korea or Australia - the UK is only half again as big as Canada
and is a 6th the size of China or USA and only 75% of Germany
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_economy
WHY should the EU invent new rules for the UK?

Because we are "special"

Ffs

Double
Hope EU isn't same as my grannie, if my brother or said I/We want, she replied I want never gets
Sadly she never backed down.
I some how don't think EU will change from it's off the shelf brexit options.
So its back to Canada, Norway or Turkey

Sorry cross post with Talkin

JWM - yes I am fully aware of GFA and don’t know the answer to that myself but this is an interesting article:

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.cityam.com/281460/irish-border-scuffle-could-turned-uks-advantage-brexit/amp

Only interesting as a piece of fantasy I'm afraid Time4chocolte

It's really wierd to have as your metric for success that we are 'no longer inextricably bound to the project' no matter 'what direction it takes in the future' (faith). Someone was listening to too many Russian trolls from the Russian troll factory before the referendum. We were already free to diverge from 'the project' in all the key respects that now seem to bother you.

Btw, the EFTA court follows the rulings of the ECJ, including as to working time and the 'four freedoms' (whisper).

EFTA = not subject to the four freedoms.

This is only if also part of EEA.

Irish border.

Good to see Trump again showing TM where her place is in any trade talks: outside his board room, anxiously awaiting an offer she can't refuse.

Faith, EFTA = not subject to the four freedoms. This is only if also part of EEA.

However, Swiss (EFTA) in a bi-lateral agreement have had to accept a certain FOM.

www.ge.ch/moe/uk/accords.asp

Here is what happened to bring them to the table. They could do what they wanted. But if they wanted access to EEA/EU pie...

The European Union has suspended negotiations with Switzerland on the participation in EU education exchange programmes, such as Erasmus+ and the Horizon 2020 research programme, because of the imminent introduction of quotas to community workers approved in a referendum last week.

Even though Switzerland is not an EU member state, it belongs to the Schengen zone, which enables citizens to cross European borders without custom controls. The Horizon 2020 research programme and Erasmus+ student exchanges are directly linked to freedom of movement inside Europe for communitarian citizens which is one of the fundamental pillars of the EU. The Swiss refusal to sign the protocol extending the free movement of persons to workers from Croatia, a country that joined the EU in July last year, has therefore lead the EU to freeze research grants in the context of the EU Horizon 2020 programme and to suspend the involvement of Switzerland in the Erasmus+ student exchange programme.

The European Commission is now waiting for a reaction from the Swiss government which has expressed its willingness to negotiate with the EU.

The Commission President, José Manuel Durão Barroso, said that he is aware of the Swiss intentions but he warned that the free movement of persons in Europe "is not negotiable".

Switzerland may experience an important loss in its education budget, should the country decide to continue with these restrictive migrant measures.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/22/switzerland-votes-for-compromise-to-preserve-relations-with-eu

Meant to give line to that extract.

www.ei-ie.org/en/detail/2558/eu-answers-switzerland-freezes-research-grants-and-swiss-involvement-in-erasmus

Now think about UK top 10 university placings. Five sections rated to give placing. Two of those reflective of research and dev funding. There is very little between the top universities. A lower rating here or there and the placing is gone.

They could do what they wanted. But if they wanted access to EEA/EU pie...

"If they wanted access to EEA/EU pie" - which as we know comes with the four pillars.

EFTA = no FoM
EEA = FoM

You can be member of EFTA without applying for membership of EEA.

75% of the UK's economy is services
A significant part is banking

This bothers me. Only about 7% of UK gva is banking and insurance. Only 51% of it is London based.

researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06193#fullreport

Services also covers healthcare, education, creative industries, hospitality and telecomms.

Good job it is in such rude health #despitebrexit

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-services-sector-february-2018-growth-economy-pmi-gdp-latest-a8240126.html

Huh? I never said you couldn't be in EFTA without EEA or EU membership application. Switzerland single EFTA member not also in EEA.

What I did say is that Switzerland couldn't participate in the Education pie the EU/EEA do, without any obligations EU put forth wrt freedom of movement. Even though as you say, and I have never denied it is not in EEA/EU.

It could have said no thanks. We don't want your benefits if we have to have obligations which you are making non negotiable. It decided it would like the benefits, so agreed to a certain FOM in bi-lateral. So, the UK don't have to sign up to the four freedoms either. Or apply for EEA/EU/EFTA membership. But no agreement to any obligations the EU require, no participation.

The Horizon/Erasmus programmes which the EU/EEA participate in, is also a pie to which the sole EFTA only member, Switzerland, decided it wanted to stay in.

www.efta.int/eea/eu-programmes

Seems the EU has the rest of the world against the wall when it comes to domain name registration privacy ..

www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/02/icann_gdpr_whois/

In, or out, looks like the UK will have to suck it up.

Again.

Even though it doesn't mention Switzerland there.

It is in my previous linkies how it participates in the programmes.

Switzerland has guillotine clauses in its EU treaties - renege on one part of one treaty and the whole lot are nullified. That’s why the Swiss kept freedom of movement - reneging on that element would have been disastrous.

Switzerland has guillotine clauses in its EU treaties - renege on one part of one treaty and the whole lot are nullified. That’s why the Swiss kept freedom of movement - reneging on that element would have been disastrous.

Which should tell Brexiteers how far they will get trying to dump FOM.

Agnes/DG
To be fair the Swiss People's Party (UDC/SVP) and Action for a Neutral Independent Switzerland (ASIN) did start collecting the 100000 valid signatures required for a vote on ending EU/EFTA immigration. After the failure of the 2014 attempt.
They have to June 2018, to signatures.
If vote goes ahead and they win, Swiss Federal Authority's would have one year to negotiate the EU/Swiss FOM deal.
The EU pointed out to Swiss Federal Authority it's all for one, no FOM, no trade/benefits
Reports say if the Swiss/EU fail to reach agreement the Swiss government would be forced to BREACH the EU agreement
The UDC/SDP president said it could be Swiss Brexit
But it says that would be damaging for Swiss economy. Anyway the Swiss government fudged/ignore similar demands in 2014, as it saw trade with EU more important.
Source- Le News, le Local, Reuters, FT and Express.

Talkin - I had a look at your link about the proportions of world trade the UK has in comparison to other countries and am not sure where you got your figures.

China was 14.8% and the UK 3.9% is certainly not a 6th, even less than a quarter actually.

You also said the UK was only half as big as Canada but the figures show Canada doing 2.1% which make the UK nearer double the trade and not half.