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Brexit

The Brexit Arms

999 replies

BrexitArmsLandlady · 02/03/2018 20:57

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

No kicking off on this thread!!!

Bear has kindly set up another (non-pub) thread, so that leaves this one free for the Brexiteers!!!

Good speech by Theresa May today - onwards to Brexit 🍻🇬🇧

OP posts:
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15
user1471450935 · 05/03/2018 12:26

Sorry, although it's SDP, says it's a far right campaign, and not sure Too many of us should cheer for any far right movement I certainly couldn't back it
Also why called it Swiss Brexit, when clearly Switzerland is neither in the EU or EEA, and TM clearly ruled out Swiss deal option

TalkinPeace · 05/03/2018 12:28

Not my link .... mine was to GDP size not trade ....

and I said the UK was half AGAIN as big as Canada.
Please read accurately before quoting.

DGRossetti · 05/03/2018 12:31

To be fair the Swiss People's Party (UDC/SVP) and Action for a Neutral Independent Switzerland (ASIN) did start collecting the 100000 valid signatures required for a vote on ending EU/EFTA immigration. After the failure of the 2014 attempt.

The reason Brexiteers will never mention this is that it's an example of the will of (51% of) the people achieving absolutely nothing.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 05/03/2018 12:36

The reason Brexiteers will never mention this is that it's an example of the will of (51% of) the people achieving absolutely nothing.

Or more realistically:

The reason Brexiteers will never mention this is that it has nothing to do with Brexit.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 05/03/2018 12:45

UK 3.9% ...You also said the UK was only half as big as Canada but the figures show Canada doing 2.1% which make the UK nearer double the trade and not half.

I said ^the UK was half AGAIN as big as Canada.
Please read accurately before quoting.
^

But 'nearly half again as big' would be c1% onto 2.1%, (3.1%), which is rather less than 3.9%.

'Double' would be 4.2%.

So more accurate to say 'almost double' really.

user1471450935 · 05/03/2018 12:59

I may be wrong, I often are Grin, but can any one confirm all FTA up to now don't include service industries?
If so we/TM government plan for post brexit Britain wants to include two things never ever gained in any FTA in the world

  1. covers a custom agreement/union
  2. covers services Impressive or pie in the sky thinking? answers on postcard please

I looked on quick internet search % the service industry makes up of UK economy
On the ONS.gov website
Figure from 2013 (sorry) 79%
from 2014 (sorry again) lowest % of local economy was EAST MIDLANDS at 71% and highest LONDON at 91%

So surely the idea that non services FTA would only hit London/SE is bullshit. Yorkshire and Humber was 74.8%. So regions which need Brexit too work most, the Brexitters left behinds, hit just as hard.

Also Guardian and FT, both report lowest growth in service sector for 16 months, in Feb "2018. With car sales falling for 11 month in a row, and hotels and restaurants hit too

user1471450935 · 05/03/2018 13:01

Sorry, back to being pub bore Sad
Don't want to get on Surferjet's wick again Grin

AgnesSkinner · 05/03/2018 13:07

user if the SVP can get the 100,000 signatures to prompt Popular Initiative then the federal parliament is obliged to discuss the initiative, it may decide to recommend or to reject the initiative or it may propose an alternative. Whatever they choose to do, all citizens will finally decide in a referendum whether to accept the initiative, the alternate proposal or stay without change.

I could only easily find figures on popular initiatives up to 2010 (on my phone):

Of the 174 initiatives that made it to the polls, only 18 (10 per cent) got approved before 2010, all the others were rejected. In general, the approval of an initiative has been a very singular event until recently. With very few exceptions, the government and the parliament have always been against an initiative. Between 1949 and 1982 not a single initiative was passed. However, the rejection of initiatives was no longer the norm in the last 30 years: 11 out of 18 approved initiatives were passed in the last 30 years. Four of those initiatives were on environmental issues, two (UN membership, the national day to become a public holiday) were supported by the parliament and the government. Four issues specifically related to crime and foreigners were passed against the will of the parliament and the government. Those four issues have one common aspect – that they were launched by right-wing groups or parties, and in each case there was a discussion as to whether they should be declared invalid or not, because in each case it would have been difficult to implement the initiative without violating the international commitments of Switzerland. In all the cases, the parliament opted not to declare the initiative invalid.

pressto.amu.edu.pl/index.php/pp/article/viewFile/2910/2943

However, the 2014 referendum to restrict FoM was declared invalid:

It can go wrong though. In 2014, the Swiss voted to limit EU-migration to Switzerland, threatening the trade agreements with the EU, which are vital for the Swiss economy and impose the free movement of workers. The debates and polls showed that voters did not understand the lopsided power balance between the EU and Switzerland, and thought limiting EU-migration was an option devoid of consequences.

This year, the Swiss government drew the correct and courageous conclusion that their own indirect election afforded them enough democratic legitimacy to overturn the results of the poorly thought out 2014 EU immigration referendum.

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/take-it-from-the-swiss-the-brexit-referendum-wasnt-legitimate

TalkinPeace · 05/03/2018 13:18

faithhope
Why are you quoting percentages at me?
The link I gave was about GDP which is absolute number.
Here it is again to save you having to Google it Grin
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_economy

Doubletrouble99 · 05/03/2018 13:38

Talkin - It certainly was your link. I used the figures about the top world economies on the pie chart . I can only think that you have used purchasing power parity GDP figures to get your calculations which don't give a true picture of an economy. Anyway you didn't specify GDP in your post.

Cupofteaandtoilet · 05/03/2018 13:40

user, you are far from being the pub bore Grin, keep up the good work! Keep on questioning, researching, learning. Hope that doesn't sound too condescending Wink I shall go back to sitting in the dark corner with my mild & bitter. Fascinating thread this.

Doubletrouble99 · 05/03/2018 13:53

Talkin - there are two types of GDP the nominal one and the PPP one, you have used the ppp one which is not a true comparison in simple economic terms. Just checked and the link you gave Faith is the same I looked at to get my figures.

howabout · 05/03/2018 14:35

If we are talking International Trade, which we are, then I agree nominal is a better measure than PPP. However if I want to know if I can afford a haircut and a meal out as well as my rent I prefer PPP.

www.quora.com/What-is-a-more-useful-measure-to-judge-a-nations-economy-GDP-nominal-or-GDP-PPP-and-why

Doubletrouble99 · 05/03/2018 14:48

Exactly Howabout PPP is for comparing the cost of living in countries not comparing the size of economies.

TalkinPeace · 05/03/2018 15:15

Oh FFS learn to read a web page Brexiters
I did not quote percentages because I was using the table further down
the one with GDP VALUES in it (based on source 6 on that page)

No wonder Brexit is buggered when people with such a poor grasp of numbers support it.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 05/03/2018 15:31

Oh FFS learn to read a web page Brexiters
I did not quote percentages

Confused This: '%' is a percentage sign.

This: "and only 75% of Germany" is quoting a percentage.

So you did quote percentages if we're splitting hairs (or sticking to 'facts').

howabout · 05/03/2018 15:57

"Canada is bigger than South Korea or Australia - the UK is only half again as big as Canada
and is a 6th the size of China or USA and only 75% of Germany
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_economy
WHY should the EU invent new rules for the UK?"

I think the problem is the use of English rather than the use of numbers or percentages. "only half again as big as Canada" where the preceding statement is that "Canada is bigger than ..." implies the UK is smaller than Canada.

Motheroffourdragons · 05/03/2018 16:02

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

howabout · 05/03/2018 16:02

Also for Brexiters of little brain it is probably best to stick to all big, bigger, biggest, fractions or percentages. Mixing them up just confuses us. Grin

TalkinPeace · 05/03/2018 16:05

howabout
or more to the point, WHY do Brexiters think the EU will give the UK a Free Trade Deal when it will not give them to China or the USA ??

howabout · 05/03/2018 16:05

Mother the reason for the pedantry, on my part at least, is because I am fed up with the implication that only the Leave side of the argument manipulate stats to flatter their case. In fact the term "lie" is bandied about with impunity when pot and kettle is far more accurate.

DGRossetti · 05/03/2018 16:10

WHY do Brexiters think the EU will give the UK a Free Trade Deal when it will not give them to China or the USA ??

Can't you Remainers read ??? FGS.

It's becoz we is special.

howabout · 05/03/2018 16:11

Talk existing market integration and a thumping great trade deficit. Why would it not given it has just agreed one with Canada?
Also I think it is the US rather than the EU dragging its heels on FTAs atm.

howabout · 05/03/2018 16:13

Oh and that too obvs DGR Smile (We have all the whisky, irn bru and Tunnocks)

TalkinPeace · 05/03/2018 16:13

existing market integration and a thumping great trade deficit.
Which the EU will find other ways to deal with rather than breaking all of its own rules
Why would it not given it has just agreed one with Canada?
Which took nearly a decade to negotiate

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