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No kicking off on this thread!!!

Bear has kindly set up another (non-pub) thread, so that leaves this one free for the Brexiteers!!!

Good speech by Theresa May today - onwards to Brexit 🍻🇬🇧

Bear,
I have just searched difference between custom union and custom agreement
All I can find is difference between Custom union and Single Market or CU and FTA.
There is no such thing as a custom's agreement with the EU, anywhere in the world, according to my google searches. Either you enter EU custom union, like all members and Andorra, Vatican City, San Marino and Turkey. Or you have FTA.
So we will be looking for a unique agreement in EU/WTO/international law
Above from Lawyers for Britain, the bit in bold anway.
God Brexit is going to be hard enough without rewriting international agreements from scratch, surely
HTH

FFS faith I've not called you any names in the recent posts and you still can't answer the question.

I suspect that Faith has not looked it up as she never says anything solid.

You suspect wrong.

Thanks user, which it pretty much where everyone else who's googled it had ended up, proving faith is a) lying or b) stating as fact things which aren't true (delete as appropriate)

FFS faith I've not called you any names in the recent posts and you still can't answer the question.

Repeatedly calling someone a liar does not inspire them to engage with you in a meaningful way.

You actually lost me at 'twat' (repeatedly) on the last thread tbh, but your rantings on this thread have served to further cement my position.

I explained the difference.

RTFT.

Well I’ve just wasted about 20 minutes flipping through the thread and Bear first asked the question about the difference between a customs union and a customs agreement or arrangement yesterday at about 10pm. Faith has only ever replied “Google it”.

But you are lying faith

That's not name calling; it's fact.

The things you are saying are untrue.

Well I’ve just wasted about 20 minutes flipping through the thread and Bear first asked the question about the difference between a customs union and a customs agreement or arrangement yesterday at about 10pm. Faith has only ever replied “Google it”.

Really?

Try looking earlier this morning.

*But you are lying faith

That's not name calling; it's fact.

The things you are saying are untrue.*

Bollocks.

Stop calling me a liar.

agnes at 11.00 faith did say

Wrt to 'a' customs 'arrangement' - as a PP said, it is semantics - what that means is a Free Trade & Customs Agreement - it is different to the customs union, because it is not 'the' customs union - it will be different & new.

But as I pointed out at 13.44, saying 'a' customs arrangement and 'the' customs union are different isn't the same as explaining 'exactly' what the differences are.

Given faith said i know exactly how they differ because I can read one assumes that was actually true and actual difference would be forthcoming.

Neither does that explain why, when TM had ruled out both 'a' and 'the' CU, a CA is suddenly different and ok.

Well prove you're not lying then.

Tell us 'exactly what the differences are' between CU and CA.

Bear/Talkin/faith can I refer to my 13:47 post please
And ask this;
In reference to NI/Irish Border
We have 3 or 4 options
Stay SM/CU TM says no
Hard border EU and hopefully common sense says no
EFTA and EEA membership with CU for NI Possible if we try
or Mrs May unique Custom Agreement which EU will probably say no too, or will take years to finalise

Is that right, and wholly Hell.
I wished I never looked at it

Tell us 'exactly what the differences are' between CU and CA.

Bear, you have literally just copied and pasted me saying what the difference is between the two.

One is already in existence, with all its rules & obligations, the other is not - it is something yet to be negotiated.

A customs arrangement & a FTA are essentially the same - semantics again.

TM has ruled out 'a customs agreement' because the implication is that it is 'the customs union' but with cherry picking.

This would not be politically 'sellable' to the EU members, therefore a fudge is found (as with all things political) and specific wording is agreed so that respective politicians can 'sell it' to their own audiences.

It's fucking politics.

Oh come off it faith you know damn well you said they were completely different things, not a before and after.

bear - I posted a link on here last night to the governments paper on ‘a’ customs agreement. You might say it seems very similar and in some ways it is but, it is our customs agreement and not ‘the’ customs agreement that all other EU countries sign up to, it offers us as a country more flexibility. It may not be agreed of course, we will have to wait and see.

Actually, I think I am going to take that time out surfer mentioned.

The very fact it's descended to the level where it needs to be explained that saying things that aren't true and lying are the same thing is a perfect example of why we are always going to go round in circles on this thread.

If Leavers are genuinely happy to have their expectations lowered so drastically with each passing speech then that's up to you I suppose.

I'm appalled that your expectation of Brexit were so low and at your lack of passion for your desired outcome.

I'm also disgusted at what a waste of time and money this all is to end up in a worse position for no apparent reason.

I'm just going to sit back and wait until TM has done her u-turn on SM/CU then see if that is as passively accepted as everything else has been, most particularly our continued ashereance to rules we can't even influence anymore.

Oh come off it faith you know damn well you said they were completely different things, not a before and after.

Jesus fucking Christ.

They are different.

They are Not The Same Thing.

The Customs Union is not what TM is talking about.

Bear
There in reference to EU
there is no difference.
Because they don't do Custom Agreements
Third parties have two choices EU's Custom Union as it is now and a FTA like Canada/ South Korea
Source's Lawyer's for Britain, Wikipedia, EU website custom union third parties page and economist.
The EU is at ec.europa.eu.
HTH

Anyone?

Try looking earlier this morning.

I did. You gave instructions on how to Google and a vague reply about FTAs and the EU customs union.

Turkey is not the main EU customs union. It is in a customs union. As is Andorra and San Marino.

You still haven’t explained the difference between a UK bespoke customs arrangement and the bespoke customs arrangements with Turkey or Andorra?

Yet you agreed that the difference between a customs union and a customs agreement is semantics?

*If Leavers are genuinely happy to have their expectations lowered so drastically with each passing speech then that's up to you I suppose.

I'm appalled that your expectation of Brexit were so low and at your lack of passion for your desired outcome.*

And there lies the root of your frustration.

You are not talking to a group of hardline brexiteers who want a scorched earth policy and the hardest of brexits immediately, no matter what the cost.

The Leavers on this thread are, in the main, pragmatic & realise that it will take years to get to a conclusion - we realise that it's not a simple stroke of a pen, and we realise that there will be significant compromises.

The biggest and most crucial 'win' is that the UK is no longer a full member - this means that we are no longer inextricably bound to the project, no matter the direction it goes in the future.

It means we are free to diverge if we want: although we may choose not to, we can decide.

You still haven’t explained the difference between a UK bespoke customs arrangement and the bespoke customs arrangements with Turkey or Andorra?

And why would I do that?

Time4,
If we want a FTA with the EU, which according to Mrs May we do we won't get a custom agreement, anywhere near want the Brexitters/TM wants, the best is what Canadian/South Korea have.
The membership of EEA is closest you will get
Problem for Theresa May is on Friday she ruled out both Canda's rights, and South Koreas, plus refused Norway (EEA) obligations, so both practical solutions
To use Mrs May's own words it is time to face hard facts
There is no custom agreement off the shelf, and that's all the EU will look at.

sorry my post should say
The membership of the EEA is closest you'll get to this agreement we want

Faith

And why would I do that?

Because that is the nature of debate. You explain and discuss.

I am disturbed that constant lying, at worst, and obfuscation at best is seen to be ok, but name calling involves pearl clutching horror.

Call me all the names you want but respect the truth. I know which I value.