The Brexit Arms

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No kicking off on this thread!!!

Bear has kindly set up another (non-pub) thread, so that leaves this one free for the Brexiteers!!!

Good speech by Theresa May today - onwards to Brexit 🍻🇬🇧

no one is lying

What is the difference between

• saying things that are blatantly untrue & cannot be supported
• and lying

I've blocked her Double

Getting back to the point about the CU and/or a customs agreement. Can I reiterate that I think TM is asking for a bespoke deal so is calling our customs arrangements a customs agreement. This will epees the EU as well as others in the leave camp as it confirms we are not staying in the CU as she has always said. She wants a deal that no one else has got before so there is not necessarily going to be loads to google to explain exactly what it is. The customs union would restrict us from doing comprehensive deals with 3rd parties so we want a different kind of deal.

See previous point about a “customs agreement” is a “customs union” by another name.

double that's just more cake and eat it though.

We can't have a customs agreement that's the same as the customs union only different because it has a slightly different name

As I understand it a customs agreement would exclude free trade deals on anything within the CA.

What do we trade that we would be willing to exclude from a CA so we could enter into better agreements on those areas with the rest of the world?

And the point that Turkey’s customs union is not the same as the EU member states customs union.

Oh dear Bear

What is the difference between

• saying things that are blatantly untrue & cannot be supported
• and lying

You are your silly logic again.

Faith is adamant she has to prove nothing, surely for the love of god, the rest of you leavers must see the flaw in that stance. She says it therefore it is true; that is the essence of demagoguery and fake news.

If we are to stand firm against people and politicians using lies, half truths and made up facts we need to call it out where we see it.

Providing evidence is the basis of civilised debate if we abandon it, even on an Internet forum with strangers, then we may as well say goodbye to democracy. It really is fundamental.

@user1471450935
As the one who has shattered your beliefs, I would like you to keep posting
because you have made us (well me anyway) think a lot harder about my viewpoints and have to explain them
to you but also to myself

Doubletrouble
The trouble with bespoke things is that they

• take longer
• cost more
• often go wrong
• are buggers to mend

kitchens, websites and Grand Design houses spring to mind

The UK negotiating team know full well that there will be an "off the shelf" transition deal until the "bespoke" is sorted
which could take many, many years.

In fact by the time the Transition period is over, the political will for Brexit may well have weakened enough that a sensible outcome may be arrived at.

JWIM
I have rudely not answered your post from 0842
Education in Hull is slightly better funded then ERYC. But face cuts, why I have never voted for either mainstream parties ever. Find both are hypocrites.
Ds1 does want to be a policeman, Wife is a PNC/ANPR operator for Humberside Police, since 18. Won't repeat her names for Theresa May.
He is a volunteer police cadet, 1st ever intake at Humberside, nominated for cadet of year, and with 2 unconditional offers from this chosen 3 universities for criminology/policing degrees.
Humberside Police is rated underperforming, but is recruiting 350 officers and needs another 250-300 in next 5 years. Police officers like teachers are retiring at a fast pace.
Government wants Police officers to hold degrees, god help us all.

Faith is adamant she has to prove nothing, surely for the love of god, the rest of you leavers must see the flaw in that stance. She says it therefore it is true; that is the essence of demagoguery and fake news.

Get over yourself and stop being so supercilious.

I have never, ever claimed 'I say it, therefore it must be true'.

Of course you have faith

By repeatedly insisting people can google or read for themselves about what you are saying, you are saying it's all true.

The fact is, on at least 2 occasions in recent days you've posted 'facts' that are untrue

1. that the technology exists and is in use to the extent it can be deployed for a virtual border on the scale required in NI in 13 months
2. that there is a fundamental difference between a CU and a CA

Thanks Hanstein and Talkin,
Talkin shattered new hopes, but new skill gained, positive there, so silver lining
Hanstein why EFTA/EEA, because neither Conservative or Labour leaders will remain, they are the 2 only parties that will ever be the next government, so we are leaving. I worked that out 10 months ago, just had to grieve for my beliefs, really. So IMHO, only that, EFTA/EEA lets us leave ,as voted for 26/6/16, but limits damage and seems to cover most of Mrs May's wish list.
I just a lowly Holderness lad, but a pragmatist too.

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation
You keep saying google it
We do
We do not find what you say is out there.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
You have made extraordinary claims
and not even provided ordinary evidence.

If a colleague asks you to check something do you tell them to "google it" ?
If your kids are given a research assignment, do they tell the teacher to "google it"?
If not, then why are you so scared of showing us the information you have used to reach an opinion?

faith yesterday your response to this

Likewise, if you could define how a customs agreement and union differed, you'd do so.

Was this

I know exactly how they differ, because I can read. All the information you require is freely available on the internet. Search information out for yourself instead of demanding that other people spoonfeed you.

How 'exactly' does a customs agreement differ from a customs union?

If you can't explain that then you were blatantly lying.

Oh seeing we now need proof of sources
I have used the EFTA own website and many google searches
Like EFTA court, EFTA and FTA, EFTA and EEA the difference, EFTA and EU agencies.
Also looked on LSE brexit blog, brexit central, politico, institute for government, EU and UK government websites, Norway and Iceland's English websites, can't read either's native langague's , plus numerous UK and EFTA region newspapers.
Interesting Head of EFTA court, offered in 2017, to act a impartial court between UK and EU. Sources LSE, Politico, Institue of Government, plus Independent Guardian and even the Express newspapers

If a colleague asks you to check something do you tell them to "google it" ?
If your kids are given a research assignment, do they tell the teacher to "google it"?
If not, then why are you so scared of showing us the information you have used to reach an opinion?

Neither of your examples are in any way comparable to ransoms on the internet demanding I lead them by the nose to freely available information.

I am not 'scared' of anything, why would I be?

*How 'exactly' does a customs agreement differ from a customs union?

If you can't explain that then you were blatantly lying.*

I refer you to user's post:

^I have used the EFTA own website and many google searches
Like EFTA court, EFTA and FTA, EFTA and EEA the difference, EFTA and EU agencies.
Also looked on LSE brexit blog, brexit central, politico, institute for government, EU and UK government websites, Norway and Iceland's English websites, can't read either's native langague's^, plus numerous UK and EFTA region newspapers.

Perhaps you could follow his lead Bear?
But it's easier to continually demand others do the legwork for you, isn't it.

Neither of your examples are in any way comparable to ransoms on the internet

randoms, not ransoms.

faith I and others have googled it.

There isn't a difference, except in your head, hence the accusation of your spreading of fake news.

Seriously, either put up or shut up on this one.

You've lost any credibility on here already.

Either you can explain the difference or you're lying.

🙄
And so it continues.

Bore off.

Either you can explain the difference or you're lying.

I explained the difference.

RTFT.

You did not explain the difference faith

The most you said was said 'a' customs arrangement was not 'the' customs union but that wasn't the question and is purely semantics; they are fundamentally the same thing.

TM had already ruled out both 'a' and 'the' customs union so I was asking why a CA was now different and you said you knew 'exactly' how they wre different.

Simply saying 'they are not the same' is not explaining exactly what the differences are.

At some point it will dawn on you that repeatedly calling someone names & haranguing them is never, ever going to result in them attempting to properly engage with you, or answer your incessant questions in any meaningful way.

I suspect that Faith has not looked it up as she never says anything solid.

As we can see, once User147 started looking stuff up and comparing sources he came to a solid justified viewpoint pretty quick
and saw though the lies of many politicians

When one actually DOES look stuff up it has a nasty habit of not confirming prejudice.