The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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This may be the last Brexit Arms thread that I will host.

It was intended to be a non-partisan and relatively light hearted thread for posters on both sides of the divide, but unfortunately this seems to have proved impossible so far.

It is not supposed to be a place for the disgruntled Remainer to use as an outlet to abuse and kick out at their perceived enemy.

I will give it one last go in the hope that things will change.

So.... onwards to Brexit....

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you're waiting to form your opinion based on the scraps TM throws at you on Friday in her speech.

How on earth can I form an opinion on what she says before she says it?!

Bizarre.

faith you stated earlier that you couldn't possibly comment on anything until you hear what TM has to say on Friday.

It's a shame you can't even keep up with your own excuses not to engage in meaningful discussions round here

If not forgotten, how come Labour/Tory/EU have allowed a major northern city to decline since 1945, and end up in 2017, with 1 in 4 (25%) of cities kids in poverty and 8000 kids never leaving it's boundaries.

If you are blaming UK governments for this what are you expecting to change after Brexit? Your thinking is completely muddled.

Sorry but if that's something to be proud of from 40 years membership of EU, I think I can live without it

user you are seemingly incapable of understanding that events can be related or they can be mutually exclusive.

The above example is not related to being in the EU, it just happened to occur during our membership.

Bear,
You made me laugh, with blaming EU for your list, thank you
I am actually looking forward to Friday, first to see what the government's plans, secondly if they are similar to Labour's and thirdly how remainer's react.
I guess it will be negative.
But if Mrs May says similar to Corbyn, so bespoke deal, access to trade, some CU details, but no freedom of movement, would you back that bear
Because that really is labour's plan.
They say a "new" CU, not present one, so need new treaty, No freedom of movement and no to SM.
But want a seat to help frame changes to CU when we leave, and do new trade deals with EU help/involvement, BUT VETO, any regulations we don't like.
Is that even workable?
That's what was said at lunchtime, so honest question, as surely that's cake and eat it, more than once

*faith you stated earlier that you couldn't possibly comment on anything until you hear what TM has to say on Friday.

It's a shame you can't even keep up with your own excuses not to engage in meaningful discussions round here*

Well now, that's not entirely true is it Bear?

What I did say was that I have nothing further to add to what I have already outlined re wants/acceptable compromises etc - and that I would comment on 'the plan' when it is outlined on Friday by TM.

Yet you couldn't actually outline what the points you were willing to compromise on were could you faith

Which is mainly because you're not willing to compromise at all because you seriously believe cake and eat it is a possibility.

Ok,
Many on here, the left remainers, think ghost was one, early on in original Surferjet, Brexit Arms, said the main reason to stay in EU was it stopped excess of Uk governments, was one of the reasons I finally voted remain on 26th.
Now when I say my home city had it rough and EU at best did nothing to help, at worse gave regional funding to elsewhere to move Hull jobs, its now not the EU's fault.
Which one is right, because if the EU was good for UK, how come we are so far behind London, Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool.
Or is it was good for some and let's forget/pretend Hull didn't suffer

I am sure I'm not going to like what TM says because it will either be cake or hard Brexit, one isn't possible to deliver in a way that will give us more than we have now and the other is not a societal model I think is good for the UK. I'm quite happy being a remainer, I have yet to see anything which I think is anything like a good as what we have now. I see the ideology behind a hard Brexit even if I don't like it, I can't see any sensible ideology behind any of the cake plans on either side.

I am actually looking forward to Friday, first to see what the government's plans

Don't you see how pathetic it is that we still don't have a clue even now what Leavers voted for and are awaiting titbits from TM?

secondly if they are similar to Labour's

Why does that matter, labour aren't in power?

and thirdly how remainer's react.

Again, why does that matter?

The fact is, I bet my bottom dollar, there will be no more clarity after this speech. It will consist of yet more rhetoric and slogans.

But if Mrs May says similar to Corbyn, so bespoke deal, access to trade, some CU details, but no freedom of movement, would you back that

Which part of being in a CU of some description is not 'similar' to what TM is saying do you not understand user?

Why can't you get your head around that ginormous difference?

Some form of CU and no hard border in NI is compatible.

Explicitly stating no to 'a' or 'the' CU is not compatible with no hard border in NI.

This really isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

user, big cities with their advantage of infrastructure, established universities, size will always have an advantage over smaller towns/cities. People will always be attracted to living in bigger cities because of the employment/recreational opportunities they offer.
London is a capial city and one of the richest capital cities in the world so has a huge advantage over the rest of the UK.

It is not all a bed of roses as I pointed out with Liverpool it suffered decades of decline. Deprived neighbourhoods still exist in cities such as Liverpool and Manchester. EU funding has helped these area and other areas but nodoby suggests its a magic bullet. Since the UK government has always been sovereign it has been the responsibility of UK governments to sort out its own social and economic problems.

user, when are you gong to accept no one outside of Hull gave a toss about it before and won't do afterwards.

The same applies to every city in the UK.

They are all only out for themselves.

That's nothing to do with the EU.

I know a bit more about how the EU funded projects in Scotland than Hull but basically my understanding is that first you need a project that fits into a category, a new pier for example, then the relevant local agencies apply for funding, councils and government, often the funding is matched or part matched then the project goes ahead. The project is identified by the local area and funding sought, if Hull did not receive its fair share of funding this would suggest that both local and national government in the area were not active enough. However no agency, not even one the size of the EU can mitigate the impact of globalisation on areas like heavy industry, even with active support there will be pain. The area I grew up in had a lot of EU funding because is was a poor and reasonably undeveloped area, it still is compared to the urban areas but it is doing better than it would be if it had had to rely solely on money from Westminster.

Garden given I still have a house in the UK, a pension pot and a passport I really hope that is true, I cannot see anything that would be better if we followed JC's path than what we have or could have now and I see a lot of things that would be worse. I am prepared to accept that I am in a fixed mindset about this and will listen to what will be great about it?

How on earth can I form an opinion on what she says before she says it?!

By looking at her previous worthless statements. Its the only thing shes been consistent on. Talking shite.

Very simply, In essay subjects teacher use a basic formula

Point - make you point

Evidence - prove your point, provide a quote or a statistic

Explain - explain the details of your argument.

This is the basis and the basic structure of a good argument.

Leaving out the evidence invalidates the whole argument. Unfortunately, most Brexit supporters would not be getting more than a 2 in the new GCSEs as they refuse to evidence their arguments. Just saying it's true cos you want it to be true doesn't count.

At least you are honest bear, thank you.
You don't give a shit about 250000 fellow UK citizens.
So why should 52% of your fellow citizens give a shit about you,
By the way Hull has an university, non rg, Philip Larkin fame, invented the led displays, leading light in modern anti slavery.
Guessing we not important enough.
Thanks all, I go back to my flat cap amd coal in the bath, and leave you important people to run the UK'
Don't worry, I sure we will disappear of the UK map in 100 years due to coastal erosion, so you be rid off us by then

user, perhaps this story will help you feel better.

Over a 100 years ago Liverpool was one of the major port cities of the world. After WW2 trading methods changed and the British Empire was in decline. By the 1980's the affluence of the port boom years were well over. Liverpool's population declined as people sought employment elsewhere. The docks were derelict. Just outside the city centre in Toxteth, a suburb with huge mansions that once housed wealthy merchants people rioted. The blame quite rightly IMO was pinned on the Thatcher goverments social an economic policies. The city became heavily reliant on public sector jobs to survive. In 2008 Liverpool won the EU capital of culture award. The docks were renovated. New bars, shops and hotels opened. Tourism numbers rose.

Liverpool is a completely different place from what it was a 100 years ago. It has seen hardship and had to adapt. The docks will never boom as they did but the city thrives in different ways. Nothing stays the same.

Bear.
Labour don't want SM or freedom of movement.
Nor do they want present CU, even they say it will be similar but the present. I think Ms Long Bailey said it would need new treaty, but Tories and Farage say it will.
How long will that take, is it possible before 2021?
Also they want to EU to negotiate new trade deals, but veto the bits they/we don't want. Plus not pay for access and have right to a final say in EU trade deals.
Please tell me bear, if any of that sounds workable or if the EU/Barnier are going to say yes to any of it
Because that's what Corbyn and the Labour are offering you as an alternative option, if T May/D Davis fail.
I confused because when any of us suggest similar or the Tories or Ukip float them, you all say IMPOSSIBLE CAKE AND EAT IT.
Labour seem to want cake and eat it, on free refill to me.
So once again why is Labour's pie in the sky better than Tory or Ukip

Okay Ghost,
Hull was a major port, Fishing and Trade,
Humber ports still in top 10 in uk,
But we where worst bombed City outside London, never admitted by wartime government, just go to Manchester's Imperial war museum it sad really. We have declined ever since, but we played by the rules no riots, asked for help nicely from both mainstream parties/EU, got nowt, we vote to leave, suddenly, EU/UK government a decade after Liverpool and Frank Fields "love affair" with Mrs T, we get the crumbs.
Great remind me to teach any grandchildren I ever get, if it hard just riot, people then rescue your city, play fair they pass you by