Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

The Brexit Arms

999 replies

BrexitArmsLandlady · 26/02/2018 12:37

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

This may be the last Brexit Arms thread that I will host.

It was intended to be a non-partisan and relatively light hearted thread for posters on both sides of the divide, but unfortunately this seems to have proved impossible so far.

It is not supposed to be a place for the disgruntled Remainer to use as an outlet to abuse and kick out at their perceived enemy.

I will give it one last go in the hope that things will change.

So.... onwards to Brexit....

🍻 🥂 🍾 🍺 🍷 BrewGinCake

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Desperatelyseekingsun · 02/03/2018 15:50

I guess it is a genuine compromise in that neither side is going to happy with it. However we get to that point it seems the most likely outcome for such a divisive and unthought through idea such as Brexit.

bearbehind · 02/03/2018 15:52

Which begs the question; what is the point if no one is going to be happy? Hmm

Doubletrouble99 · 02/03/2018 15:56

The speech pretty much stated what I would like. I want to stick to the same regulations if not better with things that we will be trading with the EU, with regard to employment law and the environment. I want to be able to make our own trade deals with other countries. I want to end FOM and be able to have our own 'quotas' of workers for our requirements but not just from the EU but all over the world. And I don't want to be ruled over by the ECJ.

DGRossetti · 02/03/2018 16:00

Which begs the question; what is the point if no one is going to be happy?

And what is the sound of one hand clapping ?

bearbehind · 02/03/2018 16:01

I want to stick to the same regulations if not better with things that we will be trading with the EU

With no say over them?

surferjet · 02/03/2018 16:06

Is it a good speech? < I’m at work >

bearbehind · 02/03/2018 16:10

surfer you'll tell us you love it cos TM is your hero but inside I suspect you might actually start to realise you're not going to get the Brexit you want.

Even TM has changed her tune and admits-

  • things are going to change
  • we're not going to get everything we want
  • we're going to have to pay for associate membership of agencies like EMA
  • we can't retain financial passporting
  • we need some kind of customs 'agreement'

It's really not the 'taking back control' you were all promised.

surferjet · 02/03/2018 16:12

OK!

Desperatelyseekingsun · 02/03/2018 16:15

It's not very coherent so I would guess there would be bits you would like and bits you would prefer not to have. It's more detailed than,"A red white and blue Brexit" But doesn't have any sensible solutions for the toughest parts of the problem.

TalkinPeace · 02/03/2018 16:16

Doubletrouble
So you liked all the airy fairy platitudes.
What about the How part of the speech - you know the bit with evidence and facts?
Did you like that bit ?
it was not there by the way

AgnesSkinner · 02/03/2018 16:20

And I don't want to be ruled over by the ECJ.

You’re going to be disappointed then:

As I said in Munich, if we agree that the UK should continue to participate in an EU agency the UK would have to respect the remit of the ECJ in that regard.

Hasenstein · 02/03/2018 16:24

we're going to have to pay for associate membership of agencies like EMA

Although according to Stephen Kinnock this may be a non-starter, as many of these agencies have no provision in their constitution for such associate membership.

How long have we got to sort all this out?

TalkinPeace · 02/03/2018 16:24

Doubletrouble
Could you explain to me in words of one syllable what your personal problem is with the ECJ?

I have tried to help User by going back to first principles on stuff he asked about.
Please could you do the same for me with the ECJ and why you want to get away from it ?

DGRossetti · 02/03/2018 16:32

Could you explain to me in words of one syllable what your personal problem is with the ECJ?

It sounds a bit ... foreign ?

I wonder if we get an answer involving cats ?

user1471450935 · 02/03/2018 16:34

On futher consideration. I am happy with the EFTA type compromise. But is it only me, but it sounded like we want a FTA with EU which is best of EFTA, plus best of Canada' and South Korea's without the downsides.
Just heard Greg Clark.
When asked if we are leaving custom union to join a custom parternship with EU, he said yes, no one wanrstariffs and ntbs to tradeon either side of vote/divide
But important thing is Teresa May said we are leaving, but will continue to work closely with EU on lmportant things still.
So it is bear's BINO.
He sdmitted it had united government and the tory pariliament side and that was very important.
Not sure the most ardent brexitters are going to be very happy in 3 years time.
Just my early thoughts
Are they fair.
Anyone agree

TalkinPeace · 02/03/2018 16:36

user147
Yup they are fair. Its a dogs breakfast
and now that you are starting to unpick the checkable parts of their waffle, you'll be able to work out how impossible keeping anybody happy is going to be Grin

AgnesSkinner · 02/03/2018 16:41

We are basically looking to make our own EFTA - but with just a single member. UKFTA.

Mistigri · 02/03/2018 16:45

We are basically looking to make our own EFTA - but with just a single member. UKFTA.

Except that Barnier's response makes it clear that as far as the EU is concerned, only Canada is on offer.

Peregrina · 02/03/2018 16:49

Or are we going to find out, that we forget to give notice to leave the EEA?

user1471450935 · 02/03/2018 16:50

Thanks talkin.
Yes I agree agnes and misti.
We want ukfta.
I said that's what thought we wanted.
But it is a complete compromise/dog dinner.
It almost as she as given the cabinet 50% of their needs and the remainers their 50% and then cobbled a plan together.
Is that fair.

Postsynapticdensity · 02/03/2018 17:07

@doubletrouble

I wish you guys got taught basic European Law in schools and Universities like we do in the continent.

The EU Union doesnt "impose legislation", it is discussed in a parliament in which the UK is part. Directives are the common type of legal instruments and they tend to prescribe objectives leaving the specific countries to implement those objectives as they wish. In terms of protecting rights for example, the EU legislates minimums, any country can improve on those minimums. So if they UK wanted to give every worker 60 day holiday they can, but if they want to make 10 days only compulsory, that's not allowed. The people that want Brexit are the politicians that want a "bonfire of regulations". Have a think of who benefits of deregulated environments, you? Only if you stand to gain if your workers are more "flexible" (they can work more, for less, easier to sack them), or if your manufacture costs can be cheaper if you follow less rules, generally safety ones. Which cladding to choose for a building, the one that allows you the biggest profit or the least? Clue both are legal because they are not well regulated but one could burn you. Who benefitted from the deregulation of financial markets? Did you? Maybe you are the CEO of a huge investment fund, but if you are not, chances are you lost out in 2008, if not directly indirectly when austerity was imposed. Who fears tighter regulation on tax avoidance? you? Does it worry you the EU is trying to make it harder to hide money in panama? Have you also asked yourself what percentage of laws are made by the UK jointly with the other 27 countries or by the UK alone? What is it exactly you are yearning for the UK to do they cant do now that will be positive for the average person?

Do you know the ECJ is not the european court of human rights, right? you know the one that the daily mail says we cant deport evil muslims because o their pesky human rights .Do you understand how it works? Are you aware of its competences? What exactly bothers you about its capacity to hear cases as direct proceedings against Member States or institutions of the European Union.?

You want to end freedom of movement. Is it because it's really important for you that your neighbours find it much harder to retire to France, drive a car there, get health provision etc. Does it upset you that an engine moves across the border several times while it's made as part of the manufacturing process? How intolerable is it, one to ten, that banks have passporting rights to move capitals?

How much do you know about international trade. Why do you think the EU, like the US is particularly protectionist of agriculture and food. Is it because they are evil dictators that dont want you to have cheap honey from China (adulterated with sugar)?

It's immigration, isn't it? come on 'fess up. You want quotas!

sundaysurfer · 02/03/2018 17:13

user - it's not really a question of 'fair' between remainers and leavers - it's whether it's a fair basis to negotiate with EU - the EU will not do a split sector deal like this. Why? Because the EU works using sectoral trade offs - as a Memebr State you compromise your desires in one sector with a better deal for you in another sector - that's one of the key reasons why cherry picking is not an option.

Though the EU may well find a way to allow the membership of the all the Agencies May desperately needs wants us to belong to. At a high cost.

I really don't get the digital single market part to be honest. I actually don't understand why May says we want to be outside. House of Commons digital committee published a report last month saying that it was one area we really needed to be in. Maybe something to do with Murdoch?

Doubletrouble99 · 02/03/2018 17:15

Talkin - she is talking about a completely new type of deal. Not like any other so how on earth do you expect there to be facts and evidence.
As for the ECJ. I am well aware that certain organisations that may become associate members of European organisations will have to abide by the rules set out by the ECJ but as far as anything else is concerned only the British courts will decide.

DGRossetti · 02/03/2018 17:18

Do you know the ECJ is not the european court of human rights, right?

Many Brexiteers still don't Hmm

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread