The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

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This may be the last Brexit Arms thread that I will host.

It was intended to be a non-partisan and relatively light hearted thread for posters on both sides of the divide, but unfortunately this seems to have proved impossible so far.

It is not supposed to be a place for the disgruntled Remainer to use as an outlet to abuse and kick out at their perceived enemy.

I will give it one last go in the hope that things will change.

So.... onwards to Brexit....

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Leaving the SM/CU means we CANNOT have frictionless trade.

No it doesn't.

The EU commissioned a report which suggested that with a free trade agreement it was entirely possible, and even suggested that it could be rolled out across other borders too.

Please direct me to where Theresa May has said 'let's rip up the GFA' - all I've seen is her repeatedly saying that it will not be compromised

By 'it will not be compromised' do you mean -

• no more ECJ/ECHR guaranteed rights for EU citizens in NI.
• no more right of EU citizens in NI to vote in EU elections.
• no more free movement of people, because some of the people crossing into NI will not be Irish and there is no way of checking who is and is not Irish without stopping and checking every vehicle, so everybody will need ID/papers.

How is a free trade agreement not a loss of sovereignty? A free trade agreement will involve regulatory alignment that will preclude trade agreements with non EU states.

How is a free trade agreement that allows frictionless movement across borders different from the SM/CU?

Better tell Donald that:

Donald Tusk @eucopresident 3h3 hours ago

UK red lines will determine shape of our future relationship. Next week I will present draft guidelines on this. Let’s be clear: there can be no frictionless trade outside the customs union and Single Market. Friction is an inevitable side effect of #Brexit. By nature.

faith could you provide a link to that report and how it aligns with the EU's current stance?

"faith could you provide a link"
Hang on a sec, let me get my popcorn first!

Bear - here's the link, and an extract from it.

Unfortunately it doesn't align with their current stance as they've chosen to ignore it.

^identifies international standards and best practices and provide insights into creating a smooth border experience. The technical solution provided is based on innovative approaches with a focus on cooperation, best practices and technology that is independent of any political agreements on the UKs exit from the EU and offers a template for future UK-EU border relationships’. And:

‘By introducing customs and government border procedures in an innovative and constructive way, there are also benefits for governments and society, including from a safety and security perspective. Instead of looking at Brexit as primarily as a task of minimizing the damage to trade and the movement of people, it could be seen as an opportunity to re-design the border concept and to operationally test a new model on the NI-Ireland border that also conceptually – with modifications – could be used also on the other borders to between EU and UK and potentially as a best practice for other EU external borders.’^

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOLSTU(2017)5968288_EN.pdf

TM talking about the Irish border before the ref.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-northern-ireland-customs-union-a8234766.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

faith, ok, when you said 'entirely possible' I hadn't appreciated we were back to the virtual border situation which is 'entirely possible' just not in my lifetime

A50 has 13 months left to run.

What practical solution is there for us to leave SM/CU but have no border?

Of course it's possible Bear.
All the technology exists already.

Keep on with the humphy faces though won't you.

Before the ref KenDodd?

And that's relevant now, because.....?

What has she said about a hard border since the Ref?
And since she has become PM?

I'd say that's more pertinent tbh.

But carry on living in the past, if you like it better there.

faith it's possible in decades, not 13 months.

What part of that don't you understand?

What evidence do you have that we're in a position to employ this technology in 13 months?

The technology is available now.

faith the relevance of that TM video is that she doesn't belief it can happen any more than Remainers do.

She's just changed her tube so she can string you all along in her power grab.

The u-turn will happen before the end of the month.

It's simply not possible to leave SM/CU.

Call it what ever you like, we're going to end up paying for access.

the technology is available now

Where is it available faith?

Where is it bring demonstrated as an effective control of an international border?

And, as an aside, who the fuck is going to pay for this technology?

Bloody auto correct- make up your own interpretation!

That EU report refers to manned and unmanned border crossing points, ANPR and CCTV on the border, pre registration of people with CTA rights.

Can’t see any of that being acceptable.

doubletrouble
What bit of we want a Free Trade Deal
The UK wants a free trade deal.
What do you think the EU will want as their half of the free trade deal?
As such things are, by definition, reciprocal and require compromise on both sides.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation
the technology is available now
Where ?
Which border is it currently used on ?

*Where is it available faith?

Where is it bring demonstrated as an effective control of an international border?*

Read the report.
It gives examples.

We should stop seeing everything as a negative.

Sadly GardenGeek, seeing everything as a negative is as natural and automatic as breathing to these people.

I've seen that report before and I'm not aware of any examples which are comparable to NI.

Please specify where they are mentioned faith.

gardengeek whilst your sentiments are honourable, they have no basis in reality.

How do you think we can leave CU/SM and not have a hard border?

That study just discusses deployment of technology in order to make basically any border more efficient. Things like e-passport gates, or the US TTP get a mention. Hope they cared to discuss the pros and cons properly rather than just focusing on the tech advocacy side. Not sure SF would be too impressed.

FAithHope
read the report .... it gives examples
Here is the report : www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOL_STU(2017)596828_EN.pdf
Chapter 5 = 'Smart Border' Case studies
and they are drum roll please
Sweden / Norway : crap examples as both within the EU Customs Unions
Canada / USA : crap example as with a Free Trade Area (NAFTA by the way)
Australia / New Zealand : I'd like to see the lorry that can drive that one

So faith
Where is the example of a "Smart Border" operating on land, outside a Free Trade area ?