The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

This may be the last Brexit Arms thread that I will host.

It was intended to be a non-partisan and relatively light hearted thread for posters on both sides of the divide, but unfortunately this seems to have proved impossible so far.

It is not supposed to be a place for the disgruntled Remainer to use as an outlet to abuse and kick out at their perceived enemy.

I will give it one last go in the hope that things will change.

So.... onwards to Brexit....

🍻 🥂 🍾 🍺 🍷

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

Its why I say away from the Irish Border GFA stuff generally.
I remember the daily threat of bombing in central London as a small kid.
I've never been to Ireland, north or south.

But I DO understand Customs Clearance and logistics and economics
clearly many of the politicians and civil servants do not.
Not being British until recently also gives me insight into how the UK treats forriners, and thus what other countries will reciprocate with if there is a hard Brexit.

I remember the daily threat of bombing in central London as a small kid.

In my sandwich year, my employer had a hotline to Scotland Yard as a high risk IRA target. The windows below the 7th Floor (I worked on the 8th) were bombproof. They knew they only needed to go up to 7, as that was how many windows the Hyde Park bomb blew out.

All of that said, I think if there were to be a resumption of IRA activity, the strategy would be markedly different, and not target civilians, as the IRA learned that no UK government ever cared about them (helped by the astonishing ignorance of the British about the situation).

It's clear what did motivate the UK government ... as soon as the City of London was proved to be at risk, they couldn't talk fast enough.

I suspect one fact, not lost on the IRA would be that for the last 2 generations, the British have been almost exclusively told that terrorists are not-white and not-Christian.

Given recent events, I suspect an IRA threat to shut down KFC might have the most impact.

TM has apparently admitted that there will have to be a hard border in Ireland if we leave the EU...

That video was pre-referendum, cardinal but it does prove you can't believe a word she says.

I went through a Bosnian border last year and can confirm it is a hard border, you wait in a line, they check your car to make sure you are not smuggling anything and they stamp your passport. They had a separate line for lorries. This was a very small crossing with almost no traffic and it still took about 30 minutes per vehicle to get us through. There are going to be some very long lines if we become Bosnia.

desperately
Indeed.
When we went to Croatia on Holiday, we thought about driving to Dubrovnik, but as it would have involved going in and out of Bosnia, we did not.

When we were in Seattle, I fancied popping into Canada - just for fun. Our hosts pointed out that even on a good day it takes 5 hours to get through the border (each way) . And that is with NAFTA !

People who think hard borders are a doddle have poor memories or have never travelled.

I went through a Bosnian border last year and can confirm it is a hard border, you wait in a line, they check your car to make sure you are not smuggling anything and they stamp your passport. They had a separate line for lorries. This was a very small crossing with almost no traffic and it still took about 30 minutes per vehicle to get us through. There are going to be some very long lines if we become Bosnia

That's before you factor in terrorist threats.

An enforced concentration of people would be a godsend for anyone wanting to advance a sick cause.

We'd have to scrap all the security theatre people have got used to, and implement some serious Israeli -style checkpoints.

My own experience with Israel is that it's easy to get in, but not always so easy to get out again.

My own experience with Israel is that it's easy to get in, but not always so easy to get out again.

You sure you don't mean IKEA ?

Tee hee.
As a kid when I flew alone a lot I always remember the El Al flights had longer checkin and tighter security than any of the others.
Now we all do El Al style security.

TBH though the border that will cause the logistical problems is Kent rather than Ireland
because Ireland is so remote from mainland Yerp it will never be a big trafficking route
(a lot of RoI trade comes through Wales and England to the Channel ports)
the clearance issues will cause much more chaos.

Now we all do El Al style security.

Oh, I doubt it.

An awful lot of our "security" isn't. It's just for show. El Al and Israeli security is from a much different place, and it has to work.

Who remembers a certain Tony Blair ordering tanks to patrol Heathrow ?

Note my use of the word style

Whatever happened to "stylee" ? (Shows his age ....)

Up Town Top Rank in

I've been through the Niagara/Buffalo and Sarnia/Detroit borders and neither were arduous at all. The only thing they were interested in was if our Canadian host was bringing back duty free!
I have never suggested we invest in hydroponics in the UK User just asked me about it.
In my experience when it comes to farmers, if there is cheap labour available they will use it if it is no longer available they will look at other ways of producing their produce or change the produce they grow. Why would we need 'new' farms as someone suggested up thread?
I think there is far too much emphasis put on the NI/ROI border and the practicalities of running it. Clearance for good should be done electronically as they do on the Canada/US border as I have seen work so well especially from Detroit to Sarnia where there are lots of car parts suppliers in Canada. I don't think there will be many illegals trying to get over the border, it would be a very long convoluted way of getting into the UK.

Suggest you try the Mexico border just South of San Diego for a somewhat more tedious wait, by way of comparison.

Double

" it would be a very long convoluted way of getting into the UK."

But probably better than hanging around a camp in Calais.

The Mexican/San Diego border is an entirely different kettle of fish with guns being smuggled one way, drugs being smuggled the other and people from all over South America trying to get into the USA.

Hasenstein - most goods going to ROI come through the UK so they would have to hide out en route here in order to get to Ireland only to get in a lorry there to get over to NI!!!

Could there be any differences between population densities of Canada, Mexico and the US, which any land border congestion estimates based on the US experiences should take into account? Furthermore could we expect further border crossing difficulties here due to naturally limited number of entry points via ferries/the tunnel?

Clearance for good should be done electronically

And how much work and resources have the government put into putting this in place so far? And how long til we leave?

I don't think there can be too much emphasis on the Irish border issues given that we have already signed a legally binding agreement in relation to them, there is a long and violent history concerning them and they will form our land border with the EU.

Given the recent past Bosnia/EU has a lot more in common with our situation than Canada/USA.

DoubleTRouble
Clearance for good should be done electronically as they do on the Canada/US border
Which bit of NAFTA do you not get ?
its a FREE TRADE area - ie a customs union
just like the one you want to LEAVE

And the primary road border is the Seattle Vancouver one and even Google maps will show that its a total bottleneck.

Your blinkered stubborness about how smuggling works would be funny were it not so childish

Ok, so it's now time for some serious answers. I know everyone on here thinks it's someone else's job but even that 'someone else' needs to come up with the goods now.

What are the options?

We CANNOT have a border in NI.

Leaving the SM/CU means we CANNOT have frictionless trade.

What gives?

And please don't revert to 'no deal' because that absolutely CANNOT and WILL NOT happen.

What bit of we want a Free Trade Deal don't you get Talkin?

'Your blinkered stubbornness about how smuggling works would be funny if it were not so childish'.

So Talkin did you enjoy your put downs? Bet it makes you feel good to be so superior that you are above explaining your supposition as my intelligence is so beneath yours!!

Good luck with you continued discussion with any leavers lurking.