The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

This may be the last Brexit Arms thread that I will host.

It was intended to be a non-partisan and relatively light hearted thread for posters on both sides of the divide, but unfortunately this seems to have proved impossible so far.

It is not supposed to be a place for the disgruntled Remainer to use as an outlet to abuse and kick out at their perceived enemy.

I will give it one last go in the hope that things will change.

So.... onwards to Brexit....

🍻 🥂 🍾 🍺 🍷

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation

You can blame who you want. Most serious political scholars see the Single European Act as being the start of serious EU integration. Thatcher is the architect - it infuriated me at the time. I hated her and yet she was responsible for a project I was heavily invested in. However, I could not hide from the reality, Thatcher was responsible for the SEA in the U.K.

As always you seek to adjust the reality so it fits into your world view. You want other administrations to be responsible but it is a fact; Thatcher started the serious integration of European policy and law into the U.K.

Faith, prominent leavers talked about Norway style deals, staying in sm/cu. that quickly went out the window

user1471450935
Hope your mum manages to stay warm.

Lovely you took it as serious question, as it was.
If I see sensible questions that actually seek answers I will always try to answer them - as shouting gets rather boring after a while

And no, as a remainer I do not want a second referendum.
There is no need as the first one as just advisory.
Neither side covered themselves in glory last time.
I see no reason to expect them to do much better next time.

Talkin - I have already stated previously that many developing countries are increasing their buying power and aspire to buying quality prestige goods which we are good at. We won't be relaying on deals China and the US which are more complicated there are loads of other countries we can have deals with.
As for logistics, well I think that importers and exporters will rethink how they manage things in the future and use containers more from the EU. Thus there will be fewer trucks coming through the likes of Dover than at present. The car industry will source more parts form the UK, we will eat more home grown products and other industries will look at things differently too.

increasing their buying power and aspire to buying quality prestige goods which we are good at.
Such as
We won't be relaying on deals China and the US which are more complicated there are loads of other countries we can have deals with.
What will they want in return

use containers more from the EU
Does not work for groupage or fresh goods

we will eat more home grown products
Where in the UK will Fresh fruit and veg grow all winter?

Faith, prominent leavers talked about Norway style deals, staying in sm/cu. that quickly went out the window

Yes they did, but importantly they had thrown in out the window before the Ref - so we were all quite clear that a vote to leave meant a vote to leave both the customs union & the single market.

so we were all quite clear that a vote to leave meant a vote to leave both the customs union & the single market.
Do you have a link to the document that said that from before the referendum?

No they didn’t throw them out the window before. They were used to convey the idea that leaving would be easy and painless.

so we were all quite clear that a vote to leave meant a vote to leave both the customs union & the single market.

Except you don't actually want to leave CU/SM.

Ok, you want it to have a different name but you actually still want exactly the same benefits with none of the commitments.

On what planet do you think that's possible?

Talkin - I never said we could grow all our fruit and veg all winter but if you have been reading these threads you would know that I have gone into a fair amount of detail about the improvements in modern greenhouses etc. and how they have extended the growing season and what types of products we can grow here out of season. We have become too reliant on other countries to produce things we could easily grow ourselves.

As for what we can sell to other countries, well again I mentioned them many times , even up thread, but I have come to realise that remainers rarely read what a leaver has written and we are simply ignored.

I think we could grow more food. A significant issue would be its harvesting, the shortage of workers is increasing and widely discussed. Our local Brexit enthusiast MP has suggested temporary migrant workers from outside the EU, but I am not sure that will be popular. There could be increased mechanical collection but that requires significant funds for set ups and the fall in the pound makes a lot of this equipment more expensive to buy.

but if you have been reading these threads you would know that I have gone into a fair amount of detail about the improvements in modern greenhouses etc

I'm guessing you have multiple names on here then as I do not recall you ever posting about greenhouses and the poster I do recall mentioning that frequently was not you doubletrouble

doubletrouble
I am well aware of what can be grown inside Thanet Earth - it is a truly impressive site
but they do not grow
lettuce ~ peppers ~ citrus ~ solanums ~ grapes ~ high fruit berries ~ exotic veg
in fact about 3/4 of the fresh fruit and veg that is currently imported (by lorry though Dover) cannot be grown in the UK
I have a greenhouse and a polytunnel and a veg garden, I know what works
and the lack of staff to pick stuff is a looming crisis

Ok, very serious question.

Why are Leavers so keen to roll back to bye gone years where we were self sufficient.

What makes you think people are suddenly going to want to stop having access to seasonal products all year round?

What makes you think people are suddenly going to be happy paying more for a product because it's home grown?

Why do you want us to reinvest in lost industries, which are bloody hard work like farming, instead of pursuing new growth areas like tech?

I don't have a link to a document at my fingertips, no - but here's a handy montage of remain campaigners being explicit about leaving the single market:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=sbnFUe9y4os

faithhop
Here is a montage of Leave campaigners saying to stay IN the single Market

Ah, so you believed nothing else Remain said, that was all Project Fear, yet everyone totally believed a Leave vote categorically meant leaving CU/SM, even though Leave campaigners specially said that would not happen.

being a Leaver truly does require people to be on a different planet.

Ok, so it was always bollocks, like the bus, but Leave did campaign on the assumption we'd always be in 'a' SM/CU

Why are Leavers so keen to roll back to bye gone years where we were self sufficient.
The UK has never EVER been fully self sufficient in food.
It has always traded to get a more varied diet.
Since prehistoric times

Some leavers appear to be happy for us to go back to prehistoric times if they get to repeat the mantra 'we won, you lost'

Why is being self sufficient a good thing?
We are not at war? We live in a world economy. Trade is generally a positive influence on life. We are a nation of traders, always have been.

Self sufficiency in food or goods is a nonsense. Irrelevant.

Better get planting, is my advice.
My propagators are already full and my veg beds protected against frost and snow

Thank you Talkin,
Beast of the east attacking Holderness. But thankful power back on.
Motherofdragons I read HDM, express, and independant (get both sides) and watch the tv news. Sorry if I misheard news about border. I thought it said on Ireland. It meant in North Sea. We hadn't much access to news today no power

user1471450935
Stay warm and glad your Mum is OK
If you have any other issues you would like cogitated over, am more than happy to try to clarify

This is what has always astounded me about Brexit.

People are generally very principled until it hits them in the pocket, then it becomes a bun fight where everyone looks out for number 1.

It's all very well saying all Leavers knew what they voted for, but I guarantee not all 17m knew it would hit them in the pocket.

Not all knew it would mean they couldn't get courgettes/ strawberries etc 24/7/365.

Not all knew the things they've come to expect being easily and cheaply accessible would be compromised.

Trouble is, by the time they all realise, it will be too late,