The Leavers Lagoon - for people positive about our future outside of the EU.

[surferjet]

Good morning

Voting to leave the European Union was a monumental decision, and one that will change the direction of our Country for decades to come.
I see that as an exciting opportunity & something to be welcomed & celebrated.

So, if you see solutions instead of problems, if you see a better future for the citizens of U.K., free from the constraints of an organisation we had no control over, then this place is for you.
Of course not everything is going to run smoothly, maybe not for years, because leaving a union drowning in red tape was never going to be easy, but we are forward thinking progressive people who know the future doesn’t just mean next week.
So, here’s to our new future,
To the future of the U.K.
The countdown begins.........

But technology is improving dramatically

So ?

I was working on email specifications for RFC 987 back in 1984 - it was one of the first things I did at Uni.

There are still people - younger than 34 - who "don't do email" and only use the phone (invented in the 1800s).

Where's my vellum ?

Ifailed
To go back to OPs original post: if you see solutions instead of problems, I would love to see the solutions to:

No border controls on the Island of Ireland whilst leaving the customs union - there will be no hard border that’s pretty much a certainty, so it’s a bespoke arrangement or possibly WTO

How we will provide the necessary infrastructure to implement custom controls between the UK and the rest of the EU (our biggest trading partner) in 13 months?

home.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/uk/pdf/2017/01/brexit-trade-theresa-may-can-navigate-customs-conundrum.pdf

Snippet:
For example, why shouldn’t your EU export declaration
for goods consigned to the UK also be the UK import declaration, and vice versa? Why shouldn’t the UK “wave through” exports received from accredited, trusted exporters in the EU and vice versa, through comprehensive mutual recognition provisions? Why not – rather than Dover, Calais or the Irish border being the point of import – make the point of dispatch or destination the “border”.
Can such a border exist virtually, at least for rms who can demonstrate compliance with strict criteria and procedures?
If it could, lorries would avoid being stopped routinely, and pan-European supply chains would function much as they do today. And with a “virtual border”, perhaps companies could complete customs via self-assessment or pay any tariffs at the end of the month?

How we will fill the vacancies for skilled staff in the NHS once EU free-movement stops. Will Hunt re-instate the nursing bursary? They will fill a form in just the same as all the staff the NHS employs from outside the EU

How soon will the first trade agreement be signed? How long is a piece of string? but I would imagine much quicker one to one than one to 27

Will the Tories scrap VAT (an EU tax)? Highly unlikely, it brings in way too much revenue which it can’t recoup from anywhere else (unless you are happy to pay £30 for a 🍺).

there will be no hard border that’s pretty much a certainty, so it’s a bespoke arrangement or possibly WTO

How on earth can you square WTO with no hard border time?

a bespoke arrangement

Would have Scotland up in arms (if the EU27 would even countenance it).

or possibly WTO WTO for any part of the UK is an economic catastrophe. Plus it'd need a hard border anyway, no?

Can such a border exist virtually? Possibly, but where is the evidence that the UK has even started thinking about planning for this?

They will fill a form in just the same as all the staff the NHS employs from outside the EU There are many fewer medical staff coming from the EU27 already; not surprisingly, seeing how uncertain, to put it mildly, things are about EU citizens' current and future status and rights in the UK.

How soon will the first trade agreement be signed?... I would imagine much quicker one to one than one to 27 The rest of the world is not queueing up to make trade deals with the tiny and soon-to-be-insignificant UK. India suggested more lax visa rules in exchange for a deal, which Missy May wasn't keen on; the US don't give a rat's ass about trading with us. To name two.

How we will fill the vacancies for skilled staff in the NHS once EU free-movement stops. Will Hunt re-instate the nursing bursary? They will fill a form in just the same as all the staff the NHS employs from outside the EU

Except applications for nursing jobs from EU citizens are already down over 90% since the referendum. As to are applications from British students (thanks Tories for scrapping bursaries!) so the NHS' problems look likely to stay post Brexit.

I look forward to May trying to sell a virtual border to the headbangers who demand control of borders and "no illegals"

Would have Scotland up in arms (if the EU27 would even countenance it)
I don’t think Scotland would be up in arms (well NS would be).

WTO for any part of the UK is an economic catastrophe. Plus it'd need a hard border anyway, no? not too good for the EU either

Can such a border exist virtually? Possibly, but where is the evidence that the UK has even started thinking about planning for this?. Haven’t seen any but it’s a solution though.

There are many fewer medical staff coming from the EU27 already; not surprisingly, seeing how uncertain, to put it mildly, things are about EU citizens' current and future status and rights in the UK. As you say that’s probably due to the uncertainty. If I was living in another EU country I wouldn’t be applying for a post in UK at the moment until I knew the lie of the land.

The rest of the world is not queueing up to make trade deals with the tiny and soon-to-be-insignificant UK. India suggested more lax visa rules in exchange for a deal, which Missy May wasn't keen on; the US don't give a rat's ass about trading with us. To name two
It’s early days deal is not done yet. See above re ‘lie of the land’.

I don’t think Scotland would be up in arms (well NS would be).

I disagree, remember Scotland voted remain. There can be no special or bespoke deal for NI because the DUP won't except it.

As you say that’s probably due to the uncertainty. If I was living in another EU country I wouldn’t be applying for a post in UK at the moment until I knew the lie of the land.

Who is going to come to a country that led a succesful campaign based on controlling borders and limiting/keeping out foreigners?

I disagree, remember Scotland voted remain. There can be no special or bespoke deal for NI because the DUP won't except it

do the people of Scotland want to remain in the EU more than they want to remain in U.K.? There was a good debate on MN a fair while back now and it was by no means conclusive in either direction, what was agreed on was there was no appetite for another divisive Ref.

I look forward to May trying to sell a virtual border to the headbangers who demand control of borders and "no illegals"

Not quite sure what you mean by “headbangers” and “no illegals”.

time given it was only a couple of days ago you thought we were discussing trade deals and had reached a complete agreement on the NI border because we've said we're leaving the SM/CU, it's not difficult to understand why your arguments are as simplistic as those of mummmy

Why are you all so blasé about the details? I'm sick of the the comments along the lines of

• it'll be fine
• we'll reach some sort of agreement
• we'll find a special solution
• we can have a bespoke deal

Can you imagine if you came out with that kind if vague crap in the workplace?

Please could one of the leavers explain to me ( I do not want to hear from Remainers on this )

• how will the UK replace the 53 treaties with non EU countries that we will fall out of the moment Article 50 takes effect?

• how do they envisage trading solely on WTO rules - bearing in mind that only Venezuela and Cuba do so at present (every other country has trade agreements with at least one other country

• how will the farming / hospitality / care / health industries recruit staff if EU nationals are expected to pay £1500 each for a visa

• where will the customs clearance at Dover take place ? the old clearance yards were built on years ago

• where will customs clearance happen for the Channel Tunnel ?

Bear, there is no way that I said we had reached a complete agreement, from memory I said sufficient progress must have been made as we have moved onto trade talks.

Can you imagine if you came out with that kind if vague crap in the workplace?

That vague crap wouldn’t be said in my workplace because I would be pro actively dealing with the issue at hand. Unfortunately, my workplace is not sitting round the negotiating table in Brussels that is someone else’s job.

I don’t know what else you want me to say, there isn’t anything that anyone says on here that is going to make one iota of difference to what happens in Brussels.

I have however provided some solutions being that is the nature of the thread. You are free to 💩 all over them if you wish.

time you said

Trade talks are currently being held are they not? In that case then a deal has been agreed on the border issue and at the same time we also have confirmation from TM that we are out of the CU and SM

It seems thoughts don’t even make it from one day to the next; no wonder Leavers are not worried about Brexit.

Bear Nope, still not seeing the word complete in my post.

Something has been agreed sufficiently to enable us to move on. Or do you think they have kicked it into the long grass and no progress has been made there then? Were you expecting them to run it past you first before they moved on?

Do none of the Brexit supporters have answers to ANY of my questions ?

What about this one :

At present US meat is banned in the EU because of the prophylactic antibiotics and GM and chlorine washing.
If the UK does a deal with the USA we will have to accept their meat

• are you happy for the destruction of the UK farming industry because the US will undercut our producers ?

if we do not accept their meat, they will not sign a deal

ok time you didn’t use the word ‘complete’ but the whole of that quote was factually incorrect.

We don’t have an agreement on the border based on our insistence than we are leaving the SM/CU

Barnier had raised that very point 2 days before you came out with that nonsense.

It just goes to show how much attention leavers are paying to the situation.

TalkinPeace

Where in my opening post did I say this was an interrogation thread?
This is for people looking forward to a future outside of the EU, so what the fuck are you lot doing on here?

Trade talks haven't started yet, they are due to start in March once the transition issue is resolved.

"Sufficient progress" was made in the last round, but recent UK government statements suggest that the UK wants to revisit some of those agreements (hence Barnier's exasperation).

talk you won’t get any actual answers

Just weather updates, number of shopping bags on the high st updates or just a nonchalant wave of the hand and a murmur that it’ll all be fine.

Bearbehind
I know that to date I've had no answers, but it would be nice to know that some of the Leave supporters do so based on other than faith

Bear Of course we don’t have the border issue sorted because we are out of the SM/CU. I was stating that we have moved on therefore my understanding is something has progressed on NI (you obviously think otherwise). I also added as a completely separate issue but within the same sentence that TM clarified that we are out of the SM/CU. If you have read that as the two being connected then maybe I should have worded it more clearly.

time4chocolate
My questions are much simpler than the NI border
do you have answers for any of them ?

At present US meat is banned in the EU because of the prophylactic antibiotics and GM and chlorine washing.
If the UK does a deal with the USA we will have to accept their meat

Oh FFS not the chlorinated chicken thing again. We can accept it but I don’t think force feeding it to us will be in the deal.

time4
The Chlorinated chicken does not threaten humans
the antibiotics does : which is why the EU ban USA meat.
Are you happy to allow US meat into the UK to get the trade deal?

What about the Indian trade deal where Modi has made it clear that the number of visas for Indians is a deal breaker?

Oooh and good news - it looks like it’s going to be a nice sunny day tomorrow so I may pop out in the afternoon and do a bit of shopping