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Brexit
Original poster

The Leavers Lagoon - for people positive about our future outside of the EU.

999 replies

surferjet · 12/02/2018 08:35

Good morning Smile

Voting to leave the European Union was a monumental decision, and one that will change the direction of our Country for decades to come.
I see that as an exciting opportunity & something to be welcomed & celebrated.

So, if you see solutions instead of problems, if you see a better future for the citizens of U.K., free from the constraints of an organisation we had no control over, then this place is for you.
Of course not everything is going to run smoothly, maybe not for years, because leaving a union drowning in red tape was never going to be easy, but we are forward thinking progressive people who know the future doesn’t just mean next week.
So, here’s to our new future,
To the future of the U.K. Wine
The countdown begins.........

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 14/02/2018 15:52

Because many of those jobs are currently done by EU migrants who go home when they feel like it.

plus the really high value jobs. At my former employer the last 3 CEOs, plus the senior management dream team were all from the EU, but not the UK. Pretty essential as a lot of business came from the EU, and they had the detailed experience you need when steering a billion-pound business through different local regulations and frameworks.

TalkinPeace · 14/02/2018 15:56

DGRosetti
The numbers of high earners are in the hundreds and they will always get transfer Visas - as they do in and out of the USA or Australia
they are a sideshow
the issue is the hundreds of thousands of low paid workers who keep the NHS and the food supply chain going
when they leave, prices will rise.

MissionItsPossible · 14/02/2018 15:57

TalkinPeace

I can't answer in the way you want me to because I don't share the belief that all the people from the EU or even a majority will pack their bags and instantly leave. I also do not think that people will not come because they need a visa. I think people (not you or anyone on this thread specifically, just in general) think that those that voted Leave expect immigration to stop completely. I don't doubt there are some idiots that thought this and believed in it and still think it should happen, but I didn't and don't. I want a control on immigration so, in my opinion, there will still be people to do these jobs from the same areas as before.

TalkinPeace · 14/02/2018 16:05

I want a control on immigration so, in my opinion, there will still be people to do these jobs from the same areas as before.
But that CANNOT be true
Because the UK's visa rules for non EU (which will apply to the EU after Brexit)
ban Visas for those earning under £18500
which is very nearly the median wage.

So half of all jobs - the low paid ones I asked about - CANNOT be filled after Brexit
because the staff CANNOT get a Visa
(even if they fancied paying £1200 for the pleasure)

Its why I keep asking the question : the UK has immigration rules for non EU which will be applied to EU after Brexit
OR
The rules will be binned for everybody (to comply with the WTO rules)

Bearbehind · 14/02/2018 16:06

mission what are your thoughts on the fact all scenarios, even the government produced ones, for leaving are predicted to make the UK worse of in the short to medium term at the very least.

Why do you think that is a price worth paying for controlling FOM which we could have done better anyway even within the EU?

Does your area receive any specific EU support? If so how will the loss of that affect the area?

MissionItsPossible · 14/02/2018 16:18

TalkinPeace I suspect the latter of those options.

Bearbehind That predictions are just that and, depending on which media outlet/report you are getting that information from will have its own agenda. I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm also not saying it will definitely happen.

Yes, the UK government should have put a cap on numbers and didn't. I don't blame the EU for that. But I don't believe the UK government would have imposed a cap and unless the EU changed it's stance and forced the UK to do this, the only way out (for me) was Leave.

My area doesn't receive specific EU support.

TalkinPeace · 14/02/2018 16:22

missionitspossible
I suspect the latter of those options.
So what exactly is the point of Brexit then?
We'll go from Europeans being allowed in and others kept out
to
Everybody allowed in
so
Immigration will rise

  • as per your own logic.
Bearbehind · 14/02/2018 16:27

That predictions are just that and, depending on which media outlet/report you are getting that information from will have its own agenda. I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm also not saying it will definitely happen.

Have you read a single modelled example that shows we wont be worse off after leaving mission.

Of course predictions are just that but they are based on sound assumptions.

Unless you can point to something to the contrary I think it's safe to assume there is going to be a financial cost to Brexit.

Do you think that's a price worth paying, especially given it's likely to affect those who least afford it, the most, i.e. the ghettos you referred to.

DGRossetti · 14/02/2018 16:36

Bearbehind

Have you read a single modelled example that shows we wont be worse off after leaving mission ?

I think we know the answer ...

If you're talking about the information in the links you provided I didn't read them when I saw the length.

Come on people one half a sheet of A4.

MissionItsPossible · 14/02/2018 16:39

Bearbehind Don't take this the wrong way but I haven't. Why?
Because I'm over it. I haven't been actively looking. Now, if the roles were reversed, would I be looking at arguments against the vote going to Remain and how staying in the EU would be disastrous? Yes. Would I be pushing for a second referendum or cancelling the last one? Possibly. But I am on the 'winning' (not to sound gloaty but you know what I mean) side. As soon as the vote was done and seeing argument after argument online I was totally sick of it. It's only now that I've started discussing it again. But in short, no, I can't point to anything because I haven't searched for it. Because there's no need for me to. Because I have nothing to argue against, I got what I voted for.

TalkinPeace

To put a stop to Freedom of Movement which was the right to come here. Just because everybody would be "technically" allowed in doesn't mean they will be allowed.

DGRossetti · 14/02/2018 16:40

I have a bridge ....

MissionItsPossible · 14/02/2018 16:41

DGRossetti

Neither links were one half of A4 if you're referring to me.

Bearbehind · 14/02/2018 16:43

mission, your whole posts saddens me because it explains so much.

From your point of view, Brexit was over on 24th June.

You and so many others just aren't interested in what happens now, even though it's very likely to affect you.

TalkinPeace · 14/02/2018 16:45

Missionits
Just because everybody would be "technically" allowed in doesn't mean they will be allowed.
My point exactly.
Most southern Europeans have stayed in Southern Europe.
What will change after Brexit ?

TalkinPeace · 14/02/2018 16:46

Mission
I got what I voted for.
Which was what exactly ?

DGRossetti · 14/02/2018 16:47

Neither links were one half of A4 if you're referring to me

Not directly ...

To be honest, it's a waste of time proving any facts in a Brexit thread. Only remainers read them (which is how they know they are there and can post them so quickly next time). Leavers ignore them, which allows them to carry on spouting bollocks. As shown here.

As a Remainer I am furious, and apprehensive in equal measure. If I were a Brexiter, I would be smug and apprehensive in equal measure.

I find it interesting that Brexiters - who it's agreed generally voted out of antipathy to the prevailing political system are now trusting that same self system to deliver their Brexit. Currently it's remainers feeling shafted. I would not be so sure in the future that Brexiters find themselves starting to feel the gentle probing ...

MissionItsPossible · 14/02/2018 16:51

Bearbehind

I can see why you think that. I don't disagree. But wouldn't you be sick of constantly being questioned over something that for you was done and dusted over a year ago? Why would you be reading or researching the negative side of remaining in the EU when it's what you voted for?

TalkinPeace

To Leave the EU!! Sorry, I cannot make this clearer now. We've been talking about it for the last few pages. It's been nice talking to you both. I am offline for an hour or so now. Cheerio.

MissionItsPossible · 14/02/2018 16:53

DGRossetti

I just one to quickly address one point. I am not smug. I am satisfied, but not smug. I can't feel smug when the country is 52/48% split or divided (although I think it's magnified online in forums and social media). This Leaver isn't ignoring facts. I have not been researching facts. I do not need to. As said to the other poster, would you, as a Remainer, had Remain would, been researching articles on why staying in the EU and voting Remain would be bad? Why would you?

MissionItsPossible · 14/02/2018 16:54

Had Remain WON. I was trying to speed type and failing miserably.

TalkinPeace · 14/02/2018 16:57

To Leave the EU

  • to keep migration levels the same (just change the colour of their skin
  • to trash industry
  • to trash the environment
  • to trash business
Nope I'm still utterly bemused about what actual positive we are on the lookout for ....
DGRossetti · 14/02/2018 17:02

I just one to quickly address one point. I am not smug. I am satisfied, but not smug.

In that case, you're missing the best bit of Brexit !

DGRossetti · 14/02/2018 17:03

I'm still utterly bemused about what actual positive we are on the lookout for ....

Blue passports !!!!!

Oops, already done that. Do you think anyone will notice ?

AgnesSkinner · 14/02/2018 17:06

TBF I can think of one positive of leaving - stopping live animal transport for slaughter from the UK.

But that’s about it.

MichaelBendfaster · 14/02/2018 17:14

I'm going to have to shout:

To Leave the EU!!

YES AND THEN WHAT?

virtualreality · 14/02/2018 17:21

What will happen regarding the Border between ROI and NI, or does anyone care at all?

It is impossible to leave the CU and maintain a frictionless border. So a special arrangement for ROI/NI would lead to other areas looking for the same thing.

Whatever side you are on the border situation is going to be difficult to solve. I do not want to go back to the bad old days ever again.

Has anyone got a solution to this. If you even know were NI is (sorry, many don't to be fair, nor do they care either). But it is part of the UK.

And please do not patronise anyone by saying "United Ireland" is the solution. Not at present it isn't by any stretch. ROI could not afford to take it on for starters.

The GFA is an amazing agreement, that brought peace and stability, I do not want that messed with.

So I would really welcome your views as to how a frictionless border can be achieved by leaving the CU.