The Leavers Lagoon - for people positive about our future outside of the EU.

[surferjet]

Good morning

Voting to leave the European Union was a monumental decision, and one that will change the direction of our Country for decades to come.
I see that as an exciting opportunity & something to be welcomed & celebrated.

So, if you see solutions instead of problems, if you see a better future for the citizens of U.K., free from the constraints of an organisation we had no control over, then this place is for you.
Of course not everything is going to run smoothly, maybe not for years, because leaving a union drowning in red tape was never going to be easy, but we are forward thinking progressive people who know the future doesn’t just mean next week.
So, here’s to our new future,
To the future of the U.K.
The countdown begins.........

How would you respond to the Spanish and the French disliking what their cities have become due to a large influx of Brits?

How about some evidence for cities where this is the case?

I live in France, btw. No evidence whatsoever that French people resent British immigrants, even the ones who can't be bothered to learn to speak French.

Missionits
Many of the Brits living Spain and France are old - they are a burden on the state
Most of the EU residents here in the UK are workers - they are a benefit to the state.

If the Brits come home from Spain and France we get a million extra poorly pensioners.
If we kick out the Poles and the Romanians we lose a million workers.

UK Visas are the most expensive in the world - upwards of £1200 for a full work visa and non EU people have to earn more than a Nurse to get one ....

Where will the Nurses come from ?

Sorry, I have mistyped that so hold my hands up. I was referring to Brits in Spain and the migrant situation in Calais, which I know aren't Brits. When there's a large influx of people and it changes your home countries/city/town landscape I think people have every right to resent it.

Do you live near Calais Mistigri or know anybody that does?

Bearbehind

I wouldn't refer to the European race as much as I wouldn't refer to the British race or the Australian race. Maybe that's a difference in how we use words.

'The European Race'

Is Britain not part of Europe then?

I think you may be conflating a vehicle for political & economic union with an entire geographical continent Bear.

Bizarre.

Why will the Brexit supporters tell us the good news about

• Where will the nurses come from ?
• How will customs clearance in Kent work ?

TalkinPeace So in a nutshell, you support Spain's and France's right to restrict Freedom of Movement but not the UK? Are you a UK citizen?

Do you live near Calais Mistigri or know anybody that does?

My best friend, who is British, lives in Dunkerque. I go there regularly.

There's no real anti British sentiment in the area - actually, there isn't really any significant Anglophone community there for people to resent.

So in a nutshell, you support Spain's and France's right to restrict Freedom of Movement but not the UK?
Where did I say that ?
Are you a UK citizen?
I am now. It cost me over £2000

Have they? I haven't. I'll have to queue longer at airports but I absolutely support a countries right to choose who they will and will not allow to enter their country. I absolutely support a countries right to rescind that right and force any non native citizens to leave

You mean the situation as it is now ??

eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/eu-free-movement-law-in-10-questions.html

www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2016/571375/IPOL_STU(2016)571375_EN.pdf

And UKIPs own admission on it ...

So why on earth bother with Brexit then ?

Mistigri Please read the first part of my post where I said I made a mistake in my explanation. I was referring to the migrant crisis and the Jungle.

TalkinPeace

That's how it appears to me.

DGRossetti

Because there was a referendum and Leave got the most votes!

missionitspossible
If the UK leaves the Customs Union- essential if you want to stop the immigration to the UK,
Brits in France and Spain will lose their residence rights so will have to come home.
Its a symmetrical situation.

And you have still not said where the nurses will come from ......

TalkinPeace

You didn't present it as a symmetrical situation, you presented it as one set of immigrants from Britain in Spain and France as bad and non British immigrants in Britain good. It's either a good thing or a bad thing. Of course it can be a good thing, just needs to be kept under control.

I have answered your question about the nurses but you don't accept my answer.

Mission, I'm confused, you were talking about cities where immigrants have settled and now you're talking about the migrant camps in Calais?

The migrants in Calais haven't settled, they don't take any services or resources away from local people, they are usually transient (they either make it to the UK or end up in other parts of France). The Nord-Pas-de-Calais area is a post-industrial area where the National Front has done well: of course there is a lot of anti black or middle eastern migrant sentiment because - surprise surprise - national front voters are racists.

I think you may be conflating a vehicle for political & economic union with an entire geographical continent Bear

Semantics again faith.

I nearly wrote 'mainland' European race to make it more obvious but even that's not correct.

You and mission know perfectly well what I'm talking about.

The issue is about people's nationality, i.e. Those with non-UK EU nationality and them congregating together.

To then be all [shocked] because someone mentioned the word 'race' is being more than a little disingenuous.

mission
I have answered your question about the nurses but you don't accept my answer.
No, I have not seen your answer
Which countries will the UK get its nurses from after Brexit ?

FFS I just typed out a long reply and my stupid fat fingers deleted it all.

Mistigri I didn't explain myself very well. I wasn't saying the problems in Calais were due to Freedom of Movement, I was comparing it to unrestricted Freedom of Movement and how towns or cities can form ghettos. Then, because you said you were from france I was asking you specifically if you lived or know anyone that lived in Calais and what their thoughts were on what Calais has become and whether any resentment was there by native locals

Bearbehind I'm not being disingenuous I don't play stupid games like that especially on an anonymous online forum. I didn't know why Ghost was questioning me about race when I hadn't mentioned it at all. Even after your explanation, when someone uses the word race, I think of black, white, asian etc. The "European race" wouldn't cross my mind

Mission, I think for the vast majority of locals the presence of migrant camps is not really a factor in their daily lives. Even for port workers I don't think it's a huge issue (my friend works as an interpreter and English teacher at some of the companies based at Calais and Dunkerque ports). Anti-migrant sentiment is more a racist/ national front thing. More generally, racism in France is much more directed towards North Africans than other groups (even though many if not most people of North African heritage living in France are French citizens, often second or third generation). Unlike the UK there is no discernable anti-European sentiment.

Mistigri That's my entire point. The resentment is towards North Africans because that's where the influx is coming from in that area. The UK has the same resentment to Europeans for the same reasons as those in Calais. Not as extreme I hope.

Even after your explanation, when someone uses the word race, I think of black, white, asian etc. The "European race" wouldn't cross my mind

Fair enough mission

I think this 'race' thing here is semantics.

It seems quite clear to me that Bear meant 'groups of people from x and y European countries', and that mission was talking about the same thing and saying that in her town there are ghettoes occupied only or largely by groups of people from x and y European countries, which s/he seems to find a problem.

Totally agree michael, it's just faith doing her usual swooping in to be the thread police 👮

MissionItsPossible

So the parameters have shifted. Why didn't you admit it sooner ?

Brexit was about FOM. Apparently we had to have Brexit of we couldn't control our borders to keep undesirables out.

But when that myth is busted as the crock of shit it is, then we have to have Brexit because "people voted for it".

Or are you trying to bootstrap "the will of the people" to prove that FOM has to end ? Which is a circular argument ?

There are certain givens with Brexiteers ... one of the most constant is given access to information, they use all their willpower to ignore it.

DGRossett

You've completely lost me.

If you're talking about the information in the links you provided I didn't read them when I saw the length.

If you're talking about my comment regarding going through with Brexit because Leave got more votes well... that's a fact.

So the parameters have shifted. Why didn't you admit it sooner ?

Brexit was about FOM. Apparently we had to have Brexit of we couldn't control our borders to keep undesirables out.

You're looking at this as though I have said Freedom of Movement is why Brexit happened. Freedom of Movement was bought up by me in response to someone asking what is the benefit of Brexit. The parameters (or should I say my parameters) haven't shifted because that's one of the reasons why I voted for it. There's nothing for me to admit!

Mission
As you are the only pro Brexit person brave enough to stay and talk
(its funny how the others run away when specific - simple - questions are asked)
Where will the UK get its nurses from after Brexit?
Where will the UK get its veg pickers from after Brexit?
Where will the UK get its cleaners and barristas from after Brexit?
Because many of those jobs are currently done by EU migrants who go home when they feel like it.
If they have to get a visa to come and go, they will not come.