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- You want immigration controls so there's less EU car washers and pizza delivery drivers.

He didn't say this though.

If you want people from across the Brexit, political & social spectrum to engage with you then misrepresentation of their posts (as above) is the sort of thing you need to stop doing.

faith why do you repeatedly try to defend the posts of others by making out they didn't say something that they actually did?

user said

We can have a close relationship with th eu, but have a set of policies that work for Britain. I sorry but we in our house never where comfortable with freedom of movement. Do we really need to import people to wash cars, work in pizza takeways etc.

What part of that am I misrepresenting?

AgnesSkinner in all my days I never expected Crane Watch..

Well done on knowing to look for and find it..

A misspent youth working on the fringes of commercial property mummmy

Bear - I honestly don't know if you are deliberately obtuse or if its unintentional.

He said:

We can have a close relationship with th eu, but have a set of policies that work for Britain. I sorry but we in our house never where comfortable with freedom of movement. Do we really need to import people to wash cars, work in pizza takeways etc.

It was clumsy language, yes, but the point was clear - the examples were just that: examples, of low skilled jobs that aren't so chronically under-manned that it we need to recruit from elsewhere, and to the detriment of the local population who would typically have filled those roles.

What he didn't say was that he 'wanted immigration controls so there's less EU car washers & pizza delivery drivers'.

If you honestly cannot see the difference between the two, then it is no wonder that you continually misinterpret people & as a result, never get the responses you want.

faith it is you who is being obtuse. Your comments are simply semantics.

why is what you are saying different to the comment you keep quoting me on?

How is it different you saying we don't need to recruit for low skilled jobs outside the UK to me saying user doesn't want car washers and pizza delivery drivers from the EU?

They are 2 sides of the same coin.

Semantics are what changes the meaning & implications of a sentence Bear.

We don't need to, and didn't need to, intensively recruit people to fill the low skilled jobs.
He used car washes & pizza delivery drivers as an example.
This was the meaning held within that paragraph.

You said he "wanted immigration controls so there's less EU car washers & pizza delivery drivers" - read in the context of your earlier post calling him racist & xenophobic, the meaning of your post is clear - User is a bigot who has a problem with foreigners & wants to reduce their numbers, not because he would like to see a more directed or controlled immigration system but simply to reduce their presence.

In fairness, I wouldn't have used the examples he did - the car washes especially are a good example of where the Eastern EU migrants saw a gap in the market & were entrepreneurial. There never used to be hand car washes in car parks etc & now there's one in every town - more often than not run by Eastern Europeans & all doing a roaring trade.

faith I only wish you'd go into such detail with other Brexit related questions instead of banging on about something like this which is about interpretation.

You are choosing to read something one way and I read it another way.

Immigration is the only reason user gave for changing from Remain to Leave and specifically said he wasn't comfortable with FOM then gave those 2 examples.

I don't really understand why you are defending him when even you don't agree with the examples he gave.

And I also don't understand why you class that language as 'clumsy'.

I class it as clumsy because it's easy to misinterpret, and these threads are usually never short of people who think any mention of immigration control is bigotry, racism and/or xenophobia.

So if you agree it's easy to misinterpret why are you banging on at me about it.

Either it was meant to be bigoted or you agree it could be interpreted as being so.

He responded to you after you called him a racist xenophobe, and tried to explain what he had meant when he made the initial post.

So why did you completely ignore that to double down on the xenophobe/racist slant?

Here's what he posted:

Bear
^I have level 2 functional English, I left school with a cse 2 in English.
I don't have always have all the correct words to put my exact thoughts on paper, no degree.^

^Immigration
If the remain campaign had won we would still have freedom of movement and I would have continued to be "happy".
But we are leaving, I think it was bear who asked for a positive I could think of,
One is a sensible immigration policy which works for all of the UK.
So not free movement NO, but also not the farcical Tory pledges to reduce immigration to around 50000
You see if we need 100000 Doctors, nurses and dentists to run a successful NHS so be it. Or if we need 35000 car washers so be it.
But I want politicians to talk to 1) industry, 2) unions 3) citizens of the UK. Then produce a nationwide coherent policy for the UK, which is transparent and clear to all'
Also I, personally, get rid of the earns threshold on foreign spouses moving to the UK, Others may disagree but why should middle, upper classes get to have foreign partners, but not working classes.
So not xenophobic/racist, practical for the new post Eu Btritain.^

faith, I'm not arguing with you about something you didn't even say and have agreed was clumsy and easy to interpret as being bigoted.

You don't need a degree to realise making comments about car washers and pizza delivery drivers is going lead to people making assumptions about your motivation.

Beside which, I'm not actually interested in discussing whether user or anyone else is racist anyway.

The only extent to which it matters is that those who saw immigration as the biggest reason to leave the EU frequently didn't give any thought to any other implications of leaving the EU.

I've repeatedly said I'm interested in discussing where we go from here, not why we are here now.

But he explained, and then you continued to double down on the assumption.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt initially - if they then speak/post in such a way as to leave me in no uncertainty that they were indeed motivated by bigotry then I have no time for them.

Gillian Duffy is a perfect example of the Bigot! narrative.
All over threads which were discussing immigration during & after the Eu Ref , countless posters were adamant that she'd been horrifically bigoted & had 'banged on' about immigrants throughout her conversation with Gordon Brown.
They apparently 'clearly remembered' this and touted her as the 'perfect example' of a bigoted, xenophobic Brexit supporter.

Her only mistake was being Northern & Working class - this never goes down well with the chattering classes.

I feel conflicted now Faith , Northern , not intellectual or artistic , but prone to liberal opinions

Is anyone else worried about lorry drivers and the potential implications of only 1,200 of them being able to drive in the EU , obviously better than none , but still a worry ?

I'm worried about that frumpety and the whole raft of repercussions that are creeping out of the woodwork that Leavers don't seem to know or care about.

Again the government is dealing with it by introducing or at the very least , preparing to introduce measures that simply wont cut it , like me sticking a bit of two layer bandaging on your broken leg , might make it feel better initially , looks the part , but wont stop the bone mending wonky and leaving you with a permanent limp

This is why I suggested a delay as a compromise , obviously I am one of the 48% and would really rather it didn't happen at all and I have days where I genuinely think it wont , but I do think if it is going to happen , we need a hell of a lot more getting our ducks in a row time to do it without completely disabling the economy and the trickle down effect that will have on all of us , leavers and remainers .

A delay before triggering A50 to sort ourselves out would have been sensible but it couldn't happen because of the swivel eyed Leavers insisting it had to go full steam ahead.

Even now there's far too many people who genuinely believe walking away and doing our own thing is a viable option.

We're not going to solve the problems until we acknowledge they exist.

I still maintain the end result is going to be BINO though as there's no other realistic solution.

Bear what is BINO ?

To be fair we could still apply the brakes , as though approaching a hairpin bend , in a sensible life prolonging fashion . I don't think it would cause any less stability than the current driving style

Brexit In Name Only.

Ie leave the EU but stay in the SM and CU.

Brexit In Name Only

As this is the Brexit Arms , I feel I should suggest a drink , so take some gin , add some bottle green pomegranate and elderflower fizzy stuff , a handful of frozen forest fruits and some ice , tis lovely , might be a bit sweet for some , but you can always add more gin to even that up

Would probably work with vodka too so as not to discriminate against the gin haters