The Brexit Arms

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Providing banal conversation, brexit brouhaha & the finest British banter since 2016....
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Extremely busy at work, no excuse. But can I say I was a "remainer" now really not sure. I just want whats best for Britain. I have always been confused. Bits of eu i love, other bits or how the British government impletmented them drove me bloody crackers.
So I trying to find positives and trying to post them here and discuss them in peace and calm way.
I would vote out if a new referndum happen tomorrow, because we need to get on with it

Just copying & pasting an earlier post here - it was posted in response to a leave voter who had changed their mind and would now vote remain.
I'm sure the poster will give the same response once again in reaction to user's change of heart in a minute, but in case she doesn't, here it is:

Thank you very much for this post. It's never easy to admit a mistake, but ultimately its the ability to learn from mistakes that sets us apart from our prehistoric ancestors.

Just noticed this thread. I voted Remain. I'm not angry; puzzled yes, appalled at the political infighting, certainly.

Anyone come across the EU's Fourth railway package of 2016, being implemented in 2019.

It includes opening up railways to competition, which means if Jeremy becomes PM he will be able to nationalise our railways. I'd like to see that happen. For me that's a benefit of leaving.

You are missing the point again faith.

user isnt saying he's changed his mind because leaving is necessarily the right thing to do, but because we need to get on with it.

mrsjelly has learned that there are consequences of leaving she's not happy with.

The EU want the best deal for their members and will fight for that. Of course they will that's a good thing for their members.

The fact that our trained negotiators are inexperienced and our politicians are incompetent is our fault. We ( the nation) voted for this in a referendum and then voted for the government in a GE.

Place the blame at the feet of the people who voted to get us in this mess not the EU negotiators who are just doing their job well.

It includes opening up railways to competition, which means if Jeremy becomes PM he will be able to nationalise our railways. I'd like to see that happen. For me that's a benefit of leaving

And yet many people feel Corbyn wants to leave precisely so he can (re)nationalise the railways ...

I am amused at the implication that there are things in the world that could actually make British Railways any worse than they already are

The fact that our trained negotiators are inexperienced and our politicians are incompetent is our fault.

Agree with this.

One of the outcomes of being a member of the EU is that our politicians & successive governments over the years have become lazy & less accountable.

I agree as well with previous posts on these threads that there was lazy & disingenuous rhetoric from successive govts wrt blaming the EU for things entirely within our control.

Any sovereignty or control we have given up has been entirely down to the laziness, arrogance & duplicity of successive govts too - John Major with the Maastricht Treaty, Tony Blair with the freedom of movement debacle (when the new members joined), Gordon Brown with the Lisbon Treaty & David Cameron with his limp attempts at 'changing from within'.

One positive from Brexit will be that our own elected politicians & representatives will be wholly accountable & responsible for every decision they make & can no longer pass the buck or blame others.

Oh, and David Cameron with his utter stupidity & arrogance to not properly word the referendum bill, to explicitly forbid any sort of planning in anticipation of a leave vote & running away like a spoilt child the morning after.

He is atrocious.

One of the outcomes of being a member of the EU is that our politicians & successive governments over the years have become lazy & less accountable.

That smacks of sophistry.

Surprisingly I agree with most your last post faith

Where we differ massively is that I think we should have put the ground work in to break out on our own before we decided to do it.

I don't agree with your last paragraph- they won't be accountable or responsible, it's all still going to be the nasty EU's fault for not letting us have our own way.

You comments about the penalaty clauses earlier are proof of exactly that.

What do you mean?
(Serious question).

Regardless of what it smacks of, it's just my opinion - take it & do what you want with it, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything or to be duplicitous in any way, I'm just voicing my thoughts.

Any sovereignty or control we have given up has been entirely down to the laziness, arrogance & duplicity of successive govts

Is one view. Another is that it makes perfect sense to devolve matters which are complex and intertwined ... after all do you maintain your own car ? Or have you traded that "sovereignty" for the convenience of having an expert do it ? Even the French[1] have grasped the concept of give and take when it comes to EU membership.

One positive from Brexit will be that our own elected politicians & representatives will be wholly accountable & responsible for every decision they make & can no longer pass the buck or blame others.

oh but they will ... I suggest you acquaint yourself with the abuse heaped on immigrants prior to 1973 ... it's not like politicians haven't been finding scapegoats for generations ...

Where we differ massively is that I think we should have put the ground work in to break out on our own before we decided to do it.

I think we should have done this too as it happens.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation

Oh, and David Cameron with his utter stupidity & arrogance to not properly word the referendum bill, to explicitly forbid any sort of planning in anticipation of a leave vote & running away like a spoilt child the morning after.

MN really needs an "I agree the shit out of you" icon ...

after all do you maintain your own car ? Or have you traded that "sovereignty" for the convenience of having an expert do it ?

😂 I used to actually!

I don't now though - although I could if I chose to.

I see what you mean though.

sophistry

Bear can I suggest you go eat somethng, instead of attacking posters again.
You have to accept we are going, and maybe you can finds some positives in what the future holds for us all, as it's looking us in the face, and you will become more and more bitter as it unfold.

I see what you mean though.

I don't think we're allowed to agree with each other ...

My intent is not to present fallacy as fact Michael, I'm just expressing my own opinion - I'm not trying to convince anyone I'm right.

mummmy, can I suggest you RTFT and stop being a GF just for the sake of it

I don't think we're allowed to agree with each other ...
😳 shit!

Faith, I find it perpetually fascinating how many posters on these threads state things, fairly firmly, and then if challenged or questioned retreat into 'That's just what I think'/'I don't know, I'm not one of the politicians' etc.

I'm not retreating - not at all.

But bear I have changed my and mind and vote. So why does mine not count.
I hate the reamain campaign, actually and at least equally blame it for todays problems. If it had been positive and tried to sell the eu's benefits, like bear does now, we probably would not be here. But we are so blame Cameron and all politicians for not doing their job properly

Faith, I find it perpetually fascinating how many posters on these threads state things, fairly firmly, and then if challenged or questioned retreat into 'That's just what I think'/'I don't know, I'm not one of the politicians' etc.

It's about the level current "AI" has got to.