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Bear, where are you watching/listening to Barnier? I can't see it on the Beeb.

Sorry, found it!

news.sky.com/story/live-michel-barnier-gives-brexit-transition-update-11242401

12:09
Barnier asked about meeting with Corbyn

He insists the negotiation remains entirely with the British Government but says "I need to respect and engage with all parts of the British debate - that's why I met with Corybn."
He says his "door is open" to everybody, citing a meeting with Nigel Farage, and that Corbyn is "very important in British politics".

"I had no reason not to see him," he adds.

12:05
Pound falls against USD

The pound was down nearly a cent against the dollar at $1.38 on Mr Barnier’s remarks.

Sterling was also about half a cent off versus the euro, dipping below €1.13.
12:04
Question: Is it 'really weird' no UK press conference?

Faisal Islam
✔
@faisalislam
Asked to laughter if it was not “really weird” that UK Government has not given a presentation today on what it wants from future relationship, Barnier says:
“The time has come to make choices, and we await with great interest the choices”
12:02 PM - Feb 9, 2018
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12:03
Barnier: UK 'needs' transition period

Barnier says the UK "needs" the transition period "to allow the authorities and business to prepare".

On the problems faced in negotiations, he says: "It's the UK that asked for this period."
12:01
Barnier denies EU has been 'discourteous' on sanctions plan
17m

Faisal Islam
✔
@faisalislam
Replying to @faisalislam
Barnier: to be objective the UKis a country that faces v few of these infringement actions..

Faisal Islam
✔
@faisalislam
Barnier re Davis comments: not been discourteous or vindictive, dont want to punish the UK, will be true till the end of negotiations. Q simply we have to construct a withdrawal agreement that is legally sound
11:59 AM - Feb 9, 2018
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12:00
Question: How much threat is the transition under?

Barnier responds:

"I'm not going to talk about a threat. I wasn't talking about a threat, we have to bear in mind what the UK has said. I have some problems understanding the position. They themselves asked for this transition period.

"The EU27 heads of government said yes on the basis of very logical positions. It's understandable.

"If this disagreement were to persist there will undoubtedly be a problem. I hope we will be able to resolve this disagreement in the next round."
11:54
Barnier 'surprised' by disagreements
22m

Faisal Islam
✔
@faisalislam
Replying to @faisalislam
Barnier: UK is asking for a “right of objection” if it disagrees with a new law or rule entering into force during transition

Faisal Islam
✔
@faisalislam
Barnier: Justice and Home Affairs opt -ins - “I am surprised by these disagreements
11:53 AM - Feb 9, 2018
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11:52
Barnier's biggest warning yet about transition talks failure

He says: "I'm surprised by these disagreements and if they persist, a transition is not a given." "Time is very short," he adds.
11:51
Barnier begins by setting out three options for Northern Ireland

Barnier says the UK and EU both want to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, and protect north-south cooperation and the Good Friday Agreement.

He adds it is "important to tell the truth" about the current state of negotiations.

He sets out three options for how the EU thinks that can happen.

1. The UK leaves the single market and customs union. That would make border checks "unavoidable", he says.

2. The UK follows through on a promise to propose a "specific solution". "We are waiting for such solutions," he says.

3. Northern Ireland retains full regulatory allignment

"Option one and two can only be made operational in the context of the future relationship," he says.

"In the mean time it is our responsibility to include the third option into the text of the withdrawal agreement to guarantee there will be no hard border whatever the chances of the other."
11:41
Barnier begins speaking
11:32
What's happening?

The EU's chief negotiator is holding a press conference after a week of technical negotiations on the Brexit transition period.

But it comes a day after one of the biggest rows of this stage of talks blew up - with David Davis going on the offensive over a leaked EU document.

The proposals in it were for the EU to suspend Britain's single market access if there are disputes with the ECJ it cannot resolve during the transition.

Davis called it a "political document" that "is not the aim of this exercise".

Barnier is often one to hit back when he feels he needs to, so expect several questions on yesterday's row.
11:15
Key points:

EU chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier gives media conference
Row over punishment paper likely to dominate
Speech concludes a week of technical talks

11:10
Good morning!

Welcome to our live coverage of Michel Barnier's press conference.

But I know what I want, so do many more intelligent people than me, and I know many people who I totally respect have plans for my area, and won't let us down

user, what kind of plans are you talking about? Why are these plans suddenly possibly bid now but weren't if we'd voted to Remain?

Bear, I think that some of the miscommunication stems from you (and others) always viewing any plans/projects/developments etc from a position of 'well why couldn't we do that as part of the EU? How did the EU stop this before?'

It's about looking to the future as a country that is not part of the EU.

Brexit is about disentangling from the EU project before it becomes completely impossible to do so (it's difficult enough now).
Britain was always a bad fit & problem member - there is no actual reason that both the EU & Britain cannot succeed independently from each other with mutual cooperation, but sadly, as always, politics muddies the waters.

Bear, True fully I voted remain.
But now we are leaving,
my plans don't add up to much really, but I speak to a few local councillors and working party members, who are trying to exploit new opportunities so things like free ports, putting regional government money in to new green projects and actually we have seen more companies invest in training locals, I know they could before, but here is a really issue, my son wanted to be a welder, national shortage, but every company he applied for an apprenceship, but all one turned him down. They all said we can employ someone qualified from Europe cheaper than you, because they stay on NMW, and we don't have to pay apprennceship tax. So he went on to study A levels and abandon engineering, how does that help him or the country.

user1471450935, I'm sorry about your son's experience. But companies refusing to pay more than NMW or apprenticeship tax (is that legal?) isn't the EU's fault. The question to ask is why don't companies pay people properly, and the body to ask it of is the UK government.

Actually I want what I honestly believe most people what. The government and the Eu to sit down in the coming weeks and work together, it's isn't impossible. Get a 2 year temporary deal, even if we have to follow Eu rules and then work to get a mutually beneficial deal for both sides.
We then develop our own democracy and economy and the Eu can work on it future, not held but by us and UKIP/Eurospectics.
It may in the long run be beneficial for both sides.
I think on the centre of both parties and the LibDems/Greens etc. there are some extremely capable politicians who can take us forward. I listed a few earlier.
That's what I want people to say what they want and how we or the politicians get there after 2019

Brexit is about disentangling from the EU project before it becomes completely impossible to do so (it's difficult enough now).

Which sounds all very well and good but misses the fact that a fundamental part of "the EU project" is - wait for it - trade deals. Moreover, those trade deals started with the EU wanting the best possible deal for the EU. It's hard to escape the analogy that the UK is wanted to be (a) Jewish (man) without being circumcised ....

Britain was always a bad fit & problem member - there is no actual reason that both the EU & Britain cannot succeed independently from each other

Unless the underlying causes of malaise that the UK suffered pre 1973 have been addressed, that's never going to happen. The UK will slip behind (again).

I'm a bit that they have been solved.

Michael, they are small companies so no up front tax. you apply for funding from a provider, get the apprentice, pay the funding back and the tax on top. So cheaper to take on NMW worker, plus my son wages go up and then after 2 years he could take his skills anywhere he liked, Europeans seem to stay with same 1st employer!
Call me cynical but if we stayed I highly doubt we would have had the reports in to the protection of gig economy workers and the threat of action over unpaid interns of the last couple of days. Because before 2016, neither main party seemed to interested.

user, I'm not sure what new point you're making. Do you think it is or it isn't the EU's fault that UK regulations make it cheaper to take on a NMW worker?

I don't understand why Leavers think disentangling ourselves from the EU is the be all and end all though.

It's not perfect but it offers more advantages than disadvantages. We essentially want to replicate what we have without immigration.

That's not an optio, and the perceived benefits of ending FOM of people are far outweighed by the damage caused by the loss of the other 3 freedoms.

what is really frustrating is the fact no one on the Leave side is acknowledging the struggle we face.

We can't even be arsed to turn up to the update briefing, probably because it was on a Friday or something else equally ridiculous.

We are behaving unbelievably arrogantly and are fast running out of excuses.

I don't think he's saying it's the EU's 'fault'.

He's just describing a personal experience of something that we already know - free movement provided a large supply of ready trained (and often over-qualified) labour.
This reduced opportunities for people in many areas.

Minimum wage in U.K. was more than average wage in some Eastern European countries, & so a large number emigrated here to work (perfectly understandably).

A lot of the employers in the U.K. would rather pay for ready trained & experienced worker on the lowest wage they can get away with (same goes for the metropolitan middle class lot hiring cheaper builders & cheaper nannies as well as the big employers).

A lot of the employers in the U.K. would rather pay for ready trained & experienced worker on the lowest wage they can get away with

Yes. So employers should not be allowed to get away with paying lower wages. Full stop.

Although, if anyone remembers Auf Wiedersehn Pet, the British blokes in that were presumably working for the lowest wages German employers could get away with, because that was still more than they'd earn in the UK, which was then the 'sick man' of Europe.

Then, after some time of being an EU member, the UK became wealthier and people from less wealthy countries started coming here instead to do the same thing. And now Poland is seeing an upsurge in people returning there from the UK, because Polish people are getting wealthier and the economy is improving due at least in part to its EU membership...

It's a long game, being in the EU. It needs to be viewed with perspective.

Yes. So employers should not be allowed to get away with paying lower wages. Full stop.

Agree.

But they'd still choose a ready trained/over qualified person over a brand new trainee, straight from school.

Im not debating the rights/wrongs of it all - just stating the reality of what happened.

faith going back a few posts but could you tell me why you're surprised at penalty clauses in the EU's position papers, particularly given DD's comments after the last stage where he basically said nothing they'd agreed was legally binding?

There was a bit on sky news last night about how unemployment is still dropping.

Couple this with many Eastern EU people going back to their home countries/choosing not to leave for work now due to the increased prosperity in their home nations.

This should lead to increased wages & opportunities in this country again.

Bear - because it's not in the spirit of the rhetoric of cooperation & not punishing Britain for acting on the outcome of a democratic vote to leave.

DD just repeated an EU mantra - nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Why is it ok for them to say this & not DD?

Im not debating the rights/wrongs of it all - just stating the reality of what happened.

But we ARE talking about the 'rights/wrongs' – or, anyway, we should be, if people are going to use this situation as an example of why it's bad to be in the EU.

because it's not in the spirit of the rhetoric of cooperation & not punishing Britain for acting on the outcome of a democratic vote to leave.

Penalty clauses are not about punishment, they are part of everyday contracts to ensure both parties adhere to their side of the deal.

DD ignored the spirit of the rhetoric of cooperation when he announced our pledge on NI was a statement of intent and not legally binding.

It is us who aren't playing with a straight bat here.

Also, the word 'punishment' is being thrown around at every opportunity.

Why don't Leavers understand that not being able to have our cake and eat it is not 'punishment' it is the natural result of leaving an institution.

But we ARE talking about the 'rights/wrongs' – or, anyway, we should be, if people are going to use this situation as an example of why it's bad to be in the EU.

He didn't use it as an example of why it's bad therefore why he voted for brexit though.

He just described a situation that happened.

It was me who added to that, as he was getting pressed on 'well how is that the EU's fault?'

He's said more than once, he's a remain voter - he's not trying to say 'EU BAD!'

Posters on these threads really need to move on from trying to dissect every little thought or personal opinion.

Posters on these threads really need to move on from trying to dissect every little thought or personal opinion.

Er, no. It's a discussion thread. We can dissect what we want!

Er, no. It's a discussion thread. We can dissect what we want!

Obvs - but it would help no end to at least not confuse & conflate different people & different posts when dissecting.