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The vast majority of leave voters are working class labour

Labour voters generally voted Remain (around a 65% / 35% split). Tories voted Leave (60% / 40 %).

So by your reckoning, we northerners, should just either all move to London/SE, did that for 3 years 1990-1993, and escaped north as soon as I could or just stop, shut up and accept, shit schools, infrastructure and shorter lifespans and just let London and the EU continue to leave us to rot for my parent's generation, mine and my kids, also our grandkids?

I'm really interested in leavers latching onto this northern thing. The main economic hubs in the north are Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle - all voted remain. You could possibly throw Leeds in for good measure. These cities, in austerity times are doing ok. The northern powerhouse thing is a George Osborne endorsed crock of shit that will likely benefit a few corporations but not ordinary folk.

Outside of these economic hubs the rest of the north as far as I can see have the following problems;

1. Former industrial heartlands - dismantled in the 70's and 80's. There has been no political will to regenerate these areas and decades of hopelessness have left them fertile ground for the "EU caused your problems" narrative.

1. Its rural. Areas of contrast. Wealthy conservative supporting landowners and poorer inhabitants who by the very nature of living in the sticks have poor job prospects unless they relocate.

Surfer's right though wrt Labour MPs having a duty to reflect their constituency's wishes.

More labour voters may have voted Remain, but more labour constituencies voted Leave.

Labour received less votes than Tory in the last GE, and seemed to hoover up some of the collapsed UKIP vote too.

As Frank Field said - their vote was hollowed out quite a bit in the working class areas (especially the north) and if they do a u turn on Brexit then there's a good chance that they'll lose the north just as they lost Scotland.

It's all very well & good to have huge numbers of votes, but when they're all concentrated in a handful of constituencies it doesn't translate to seats in Parliament.

I sort of want labour to throw the Brexit voters under the bus now though, as they still don't seem to have got the message that you cannot take voters for granted & treat them like useful idiots.

I sort of want labour to throw the Brexit voters under the bus now though, as they still don't seem to have got the message that you cannot take voters for granted & treat them like useful idiots.

If ordinary folk, often poor are encouraged to vote for parties endorsing austerity (and Brexit) then they are already being treated as useful idiots.

Surfer's right though wrt Labour MPs having a duty to reflect their constituency's wishes.

Except the UK is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.
MPs are not delegates for their constituents.

Except the UK is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.
MPs are not delegates for their constituents.

True, but then we don't do referenda as routine.

This was one of the very, very rare monuments where every individual voter had an equal voice.

Parliament agreed to delegate the remain/leave question to the individuals within the electorate & assured the electorate that their decision would be enacted.

To renege on that trust is dangerous for our democracy.

Forgive me for thinking this BUT
Labour are not in charge.
So anything they say is for the future not now.
Anyone could say I will give everyone £10,000 as soon as I am PM.
Unless they actually become the PM it just isn't going to happen.
Also if a deal isn't agree then it's WTA, so then how does that was.
If before labour even get there, they have to post a manifesto and JC can see how the land lies and change his views AGAIN between now and then..

Some people are starting to sound really rattled.

Staying in the customs unions isn't reneging on anything. The question on the ballot paper was about leaving the EU. Due to Cameron's stupidity there was no detail beyond this i.e customs union, single market.

Not rattled at all - just waiting for TM to outline our position on Friday.

Pointless speculating really.

I was just responding to the comments re Labour's latest stance is all.

AgnesSkinner
Any MP who votes against the wishes of his/her constituents will probably be out of a job, as they’ll be seen as traitors. I know loyalty means nothing to you lot, but thankfully, most MP’s with a backbone realise they have to represent their people.
I’d draw you a picture of a backbone if I had the time, just so you know what one actually looks like.

Any MP who votes against the wishes of his/her constituents will probably be out of a job, as they’ll be seen as traitors. I know loyalty means nothing to you lot, but thankfully, most MP’s with a backbone realise they have to represent their people.

If I was an MP in leave voting constituency my view would be simple.

I am elected to serve the best interests of my constituents. Having weighed up the analysis my view would be that proceeding with a hard brexit would be detrimental to the social and economic wellbeing of my constituents and the community. I'd call that integrity. Better than bowing to the bullying tactics of those that shout traitor.

The North vs South resentment is in itself counterproductive (make the North a powerhouse, don't blame your situation on the government or more ridiculous yet - on the EU), however, you have to ask yourself this question: am I convinced that gutting the cash cow which has been funding this whole circus, i. e. the gateway to Europe along with financial services, is REALLY going to help the North flourish. If so please explain why less money is going to help.

To renege on that trust is dangerous for our democracy.

The word 'democracy' is constantly bounced around but it means nothing in the context you are using it.

Leavers voted to 'leave the EU nothing more, nothing less.

There is no consensus of opinion on what Leave actually looks like and Leavers simply can't even begin to tackle the difficult questions.

Reverting to 'it'll all be fine' is not democracy.

Insisting on jumping off a cliff edge is not democracy.

Knowingly devestaing the economy is not democracy.

I loved how you all think JC is some kind of new wonder.
He isn't, he will chop and change and lie, to appear voteable.
How can you place your trust in someone like this?
We are not jumping off a cliff edge, even the bank have said it's not as bad as that. Good grief woman get a grip.

Any MP who votes against the wishes of his/her constituents will probably be out of a job, as they’ll be seen as traitors. I know loyalty means nothing to you lot, but thankfully, most MP’s with a backbone realise they have to represent their people.

What a load of nonsense and hyperbole.

MPs are not delegates:

Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.

Parliamentary democracy is the basis of the British constitution. Not rule by the tyranny of the people.

Didn’t Leavers vote for parliamentary democracy?

I’d draw you a picture of a backbone if I had the time, just so you know what one actually looks like.

Spent far too long studing invertebrates so it would be wasted on me, but thanks for the offer.

How can you place your trust in someone like this?

Personally, I find hes a tad more trustworthy than Davies, Gove and Johnson.

How can you place your trust in someone like this?

I'm not placing my trust in anyone over Brexit.

A far more apt question is how can you place your trust in this government given that they clearly can't deliver what you want.

FGS, they can't even agree what they want between themselves yet you continually repeat the mantra 'it'll be fine'

No I continue to say they are the ones in charge, and they will be the ones who broker the deal, what ever it is, and we will have to accept it.
I don't live in a fantasy world you see, and realise it will be as it will be.
It's far to late for anyone to back out, and do the we don't want to go, that JC is now trying to premote.

No I continue to say they are the ones in charge, and they will be the ones who broker the deal, what ever it is, and we will have to accept it

So if we end up with BINO, which is the only realistic / workable choice right now, you'd just accept it

BINO.. isn't what TM the ~PM is aiming for though is it.

NO SM AND NOT CU.

Your pinnng all your hopes on her caving in, and just accepting, but hasn't Labour just forced her hand, into NOT being able to do this...
It's made a NO deal even more of an end result, as now the EU think she is an even easier touch, and your forgetting what they just had weekend talks for the Cabinet...

It doesn't matter what she's 'aiming' for. She isn't going to get a deal which allows for no hard border in NI and not being in the SM/CU.

So when you said

No I continue to say they are the ones in charge, and they will be the ones who broker the deal, what ever it is, and we will have to accept it

You actually meant, as long as it's what I want, I'll accept it

Which given Leavers are completely unable to articulate what they actually do want that doesn't involve cake and eating it, i.e. There are no realistic proposals, it makes things a bit tricky

FGS, they can't even agree what they want between themselves yet you continually repeat the mantra 'it'll be fine'

I was under the impression that the cabinet had reached consensus on this, and that we are to hear the plan in TM's speech on Friday.