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And these people voted to leave

mummmy what are your thoughts on londonmums point that Barnier simply cannot offer something that the other 27 countries can’t have ie exemptions from rules etc.

Equally, anything agreed for us as a third country would have to be applicable to all other countries.

TM and DD can stomp their feet as much as they like; it can’t happen.

You really can’t see beyond the nasty, bullying, punishing EU rhetoric can you?

if you leave a club you are no longer entitled to the benefits associated with that club; that’s not punishment, it’s just logic.

I think mummmy also needs to move beyond the idea of the UK and the EU being in some kind of emotional relationship, with all the talk of LTB and punishment. As far the EU is concerned it’s a legal process.

They’ll be enjoying higher food prices since the referendum then mummy?

"I think mummmy also needs to move beyond the idea of the UK and the EU being in some kind of emotional relationship, with all the talk of LTB and punishment."

She is just a helpless victim of right wing propaganda. The other day the Torygraph was comparing the negotiations to Battle of England.... a truly outrageous narrative and a blatant attempt at shameful manipulation of the intellectually vulnerable (who else would buy this BS?).

Since the PUNISH was from the EU not the UK. How do you square that one?
Many Marriages/ Relationship have nothing to do with emotional, but you do sort assets and liabilities, and we have paid in for 40 of years, so your saying that counts for nothing.

Just a helpless victim of left wing propaganda. That should you sit in your house shouting at a device someone will hear you and change the stance of the whole Cabinet, cos you say it has to happen and are stamping your feet.
Who is facing real life, the leavers and even Diane Abbott who said we don't know and will just have to wait and see, or the remainers who still feel that it can't possible happen, when it is happening all around them but they won't can't see it and hide out in their MN reality, where they are the majority and so can still pretend.

Barnier can't offer , well then, since the PM says she cant accept that. no say, no pay, no deal.
Looks like we are off with no transition and no payments.

Mother of Four that;s not true is it.
We can get the parts they will just cost more.

And the head in the sand applies to remain as well as leave.

Penalty clauses to prevent deliberate UK regulatory divergence to gain single market advantage during transition are not a punishment. It’s to ensure the UK adheres to contract terms. It’s a legal process not an emotional one, however much mummmy seems to want it to be.

I've always said NOT GREAT, but willing to take the pain to leave, in the hope that the UK can and will do what it has always done,
Retreat, Readjust and Rise again.

Or are you saying the UK can't EVER survive if we do leave, are we so tied to the EU and it's rules, in the remains view that we just bow down and accept what ever crap they dish out..

We stopped a lot of manufacturing not because we couldn't but because it was so much cheaper to buy it in, does this not mean by your very own argument manufacturing will once more become profitable?

@mummmy2017 Outstanding question we would all appreciate your response to:

What exactly would you like Barnier to concede to that would not violate EU rules and be unfair to EU27 members?

Your deliberately missing the point, who said coal and steel.
Manufacturing means making things.
Farming season goods well that is already starting now, farmers are planing to do this for the winter to produce more food.
It's very stupid and naive to think if we stop being supplied goods from one area that somewhere else in the world isn't going to want a slice of a pie that suddenly come up as available.
All your gloomy outlooks mean that your never willing to see any way forward, as your always looking backwards and longing for the past.

Or are you saying the UK can't EVER survive if we do leave, are we so tied to the EU and it's rules, in the remains view that we just bow down and accept what ever crap they dish out

It's like Leaver loser bingo here.

No one - certainly not I - has ever said it's impossible to leave the EU.

But a lot of people - some sensibile Leavers too (Richard North springs to mind) did point out it would be a long, complex and delicate process that would take years.

Almost all the reasons why Leavers have no answers to anything beyond soundbites is the unholy rush that has been placed on Brexit.

It would have been possible to leave the EU over a carefully planned five years.

It is impossible to achieve the same results in 16 months. Which is what Theresa May set in motion by triggering A50 with a clue as to what to do next.

Now if all of this comes as news to some, it's odd, as it was pointed out before the referendum. With even "Remoaners" agreeing that a carefully planned Leave was possible (I think that was their "pulling together" done with).

It's hard not to view Brexit as a wasp stuck in a bottle, banging it's head against the side. The analogy is quite fitting, as the reason wasps (and flies) do this, is the can't see up - which is where the exit is.

That's one of the reasons why I continue to be surprised by the resistance to reading R North and his whole Flexcit idea. All those years spent working out a sensible way to leave the EU, but apparently he's just too sensible and pragmatic for the people he finally convinced to vote to leave. The man's life is a study in tragedy.

The tragedy is that if you add Remainers and disappointed Leavers
(liek R North) together the people who are unhappy with the end result is the majority. So much for democracy (which is two lions and a lamb voting on dinner)