The Brexit Arms

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Welcome to The Brexit Arms!
Looking forwards, not backward!

All welcome 🍺

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@FaithHopeCharityDesperation
"Your kids will not be denied the chance to live or work in the Eu post Brexit - it may not be as easy as it is now, but it won't be 'denied' to them."

They will have to satisfy visa criteria, and find a job before entry. And then apply for a work permit.
Just like find a job in the USA. Pretty difficult.

"Your kids will not be denied the opportunity to study in the Eu though, they will just have to pay the non-Eu costs."

Yes I know - that's why I used the word FREE. You now have to pay third country fees.

"Wrt 'educated for free' - again, that's another misnomer; some Eu countries provide free tuition for higher education, many do not"

Have you ever lived and worked or studied in Europe? Tuition fees are ZERO in Sweden, most German Laender, 2K€ in Netherlands and a pittance most other places for EU citizens.

The Leavers on here have committed the next generation to £50K in debt for student tuition. Just like good old Blighty. that's really "taking back control" sigh.

Add to that the removal of the Erasmus eligibility. double sigh.

If an opportunity is denied to 90% of the people who would otherwise be able to access it, it's effectively denied. 90% would agree on that point. Brexit will only possibly benefit a very tiny minority of British people, it's hard to see exactly who stands to gain - some dodgy financiers perhaps.

See Jim Jones and Guyana in the 1970s. The cult died from grape flavoured Kool Aid laced with cyanide. They trusted him blindly

Hence, the expression.

HelenofTroy, you seem to be in some confusion as to what 'free' means.
'A pittance' may be a small amount, but it's not 'free'.

Also, only a small % of UK school leavers utilise the opportunity to study elsewhere in the Eu - most don't actually go to university at all.

This is why most U.K. citizens couldn't give a rats ass about the 'opportunity to study in the EU' in all honesty.

I know where the expression comes from Olivia - I just thought you were actually being humorous for a change is all.
I should have known better really.

You are all so over invested in this, the only people who can and will make this happen are not sat on MN. No matter how much we debate this and how upset your going to get over it all, NOTHING is going to change. Because though this effects us, we have no direct input into this , we voted and now HAVE to watch and accept the end out come. That is Real life.

Hear that folks? We just have to sit passively by and wait for who-knows-what to unfold, even though this will affect us, our children and possibly our children's children. Whatever you do, don't complain, don't write to your MPs, don''t go on demos, don't , just don't, stand up and be counted.

Yes, we are all over invested. Whichever side we voted for, our future prosperity, national relationships with neighbouring countries and the world, sense of patriotism, civic involvement, civil and other rights are at stake. Our views probably will count for nothing but we are all involved up to the hilt and can’t do anything about it.

@FaithHopeCharityDesperation
"This is why most U.K. citizens couldn't give a rats ass about the 'opportunity to study in the EU' in all honesty."

Based on what? Your prejudice?

Isn't it a little un-natural to dent the life-chances of the next generation?

You do know that old people are 80% LEAVE voters, and young people are 80% REMAIN ?

Based on the fact that only about a third of UK school leavers go on to university, and only a fraction of those utilise the opportunity to study elsewhere in the Eu.

I have no data or copious links, but it would be reasonable to assume that a large part of the two thirds of school leavers who don't go to university are not too fussed about a few people having to jump through a couple of extra hoops.

Based on what? Your prejudice?

Your assertions are based on your own prejudices too though.

Your prejudice is that being a member of the EU is the best option & we should remain, therefore your arguments are all based on this.

Mine is that being part of the EU is not the be all & end all & therefore my viewpoints are based on that.

.@FaithHopeCharityDesperation
"I have no data or copious links, but it would be reasonable to assume that a large part of the two thirds of school leavers who don't go to university are not too fussed about a few people having to jump through a couple of extra hoops."

So you're projecting your opinion, that's all.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

So you're projecting your opinion, that's all.

Just as you are projecting yours.

Et tu Helen

Not really faith there are zero statements of fact coming from Leavers in respect of why Leave makes sense vs an overwhelming body of evidence to support why Remain makes more sense.

Sorry. Opinions only coming from the Leave camp. Facts and reasoned opinions coming from Remain.

Going back to what mummy said about us just having to sit passively by while we wait to see what happens it seems that not everyone is willing to just sit down and shut up. I'm sure this will have the JRMs, Hoeys and DDs frothing at the mouth.

Some interesting stats within this article, not least America and Canada being no1 and no2 choice for students. No idea what the entry requirements are but would imagine it’s reasonably paperwork heavy but doesn’t appear to put a keen student off.

www.timeshighereducation.com/news/interest-study-abroad-declining-among-uk-students#survey-answer

It’s a very small proportion of the entire 18-25 population that wish to study abroad.

I really don't understand this "it's only a small portion of the population, so they don't matter" mindset. I guess it links in with the whole "your lost, get stuffed" Brexiteer mindset.

The main problem I have with Brexit is that my children (and presumably subsequent generations) won't have the opportunities I had. That will never be OK.

The rich won't care, because they can afford to find a way around it for their kids. But what about the rest of us?

a few people having to jump through a couple of extra hoops

Finding tens of thousands of euros for non-EU student tuition fees is a bit more than that. Unless, you're rich, of course.

Given the massive rise in university tuition fees in the UK, cutting off the chance for young people to study courses abroad, often for a fraction of the UK cost, is extremely unfair.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation
"This is why most U.K. citizens couldn't give a rats ass about the 'opportunity to study in the EU' in all honesty."

Speak for yourself. You obviously don't give a 'rats ass'(sic) about education.

Cardinal - this "it's only a small portion of the population, so they don't matter” I see you have added that extra bit on to the end of my sentence. I have posted an article that has facts and figures on it which is what people have been asking for. The article bears out that it’s a small proportion of 18-25 year olds. At no point did I say they didn’t matter .

It’s a very small proportion of the entire 18-25 population that wish to study abroad.

From your own link: 'The survey also found that the results of the European Union referendum has caused confusion among UK students regarding the ease of acceptance into and the costs of overseas programmes.'

That's worrying. The UK can't afford to become more insular. It would be better for our economy if more Britons studied abroad.

According to The British Council, 'the need for the UK to improve its capability in languages is incontestable' and according to the British Chambers of Commerce ‘the extent of the language deficit in the UK is truly serious: up to 96 per cent of respondents had no foreign language ability for the markets they served, and the largest language deficits are for the fastest-developing markets.’

www.britishcouncil.org/sites/default/files/languages-for-the-future-report.pdf

So it's a small proportion - the implication was that as it's only a small proportion it wasn't something for us to worry our little heads about. Or are you trying to deny that? You obviously don't seem to be worried about them!

Talking of universities, let's not forget the income UK universities get from EU students. There's been a drop in applications this year. In the future, if they're to be treated like other overseas students, who pay approx £14K/year, I would expect that number to decrease even further.
Finally, if they lose FOM and have to be monitored by the university under UKVI regulations, like other international students, they're likely to be even more put off.

Cardinal - you have done it again, only instead of adding things onto my sentence you are now applying your own interpretation to my words. Fact: it’s a very small proportion, not once have I said ‘only’ or ‘they dont matter’ you are assuming that’s my mindset.

The article also clearly states there is a programme in place to try and drive up numbers studying overseas.

@twofingerstoEverything

Suppose that's true but the UK can choose to make it easier for student "imiagrunts" under its new found freedoms.

Oh wait, we can do that now because we are sovereign, in'it?