The Brexit Arms

[BrexitArmsLandlady]

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
🍺 🍻🍷🍹🥂🍾🍸🍺🍻🍷🍹🥂

Welcome to The Brexit Arms!
Looking forwards, not backward!

All welcome 🍺

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

Yes it's none of my business. However, this is a thread about Brexit where Brexit is being discussed. So asking questions about Brexit is not the equivalent of me walking up to you in Tesco and demanding answers!

Why come on a Brexit thread where, presumably, Brexit is discussed and then be surprised and annoyed when someone asks you a question about Brexit!

And then after this type of frankly ludicrous comment remainers are called patronising and bullying!

Shock! Horror! Posters want a discussion about Brexit on a Brexit thread. A discussion featuring questions and answers!

You and most Brexit supporters refuse to engage. The issue is not that you think differently to me but your silence and refusal to engage suggests there was no thinking at all!

Refusal to engage is because it has been proven pointless to do so.
I have engaged endlessly with debate & discussion on MN since before the Ref - if something new comes up then I am interested to learn & read viewpoints & links from all involved posters.
This thread however is a perfect example of why Leavers don't engage - rehashing old arguments, covering old ground and being offensive to individual posters.

You may think the silence & refusal to engage suggests there was no thinking involved at all, but this is far from true (in my case at least).
I did a lot of reading & research pre vote & was entirely convinced that leaving the EU was the right choice - I remain convinced.

olivia I don’t think good sense will prevail so much as I think my scenario is the only viable option.

WTO is not a viable option, neither is free access to the SM so I can’t see any other route.

@Bearbehind

How about a mistake? We crash out because of incompetence?

Or we just reverse this silly idea because people realise being in the same position (your suggestion) without any influence is just nonsense? This would necessitate common sense I agree.

Faith if you don't want to rehash old arguments why are you on a Brexit thread? Brexit is going to be revisited and discussed. I too have explained many, many times why calling the EU undemocratic is wrong. Both sides are going over old ground.

New points are being found out about old points. As jobs move and funding is cut to universities these topics will be discussed again. As the negotiations move on old points will be discussed.

I find it strange if you are confident and well informed with a well referenced knowledge base you choose to come on a thread about Brexit but refuse to debate. If you don't want to debate fine, but why come here?

Oh that's right you want "chit chat".

Faith if you find posters being offensive so off putting using the term "fucking twat" is a bit hypocritical?

Or did I get that wrong?

How about a mistake? We crash out because of incompetence

I might be being overly optimistic olivia but I don’t think that could happen in reality.

It’s a bit like the NI issue in the first round of negotiations; TM went in promising no hard border and NI would effectively remain but the DUP said ‘not fucking likely’ and she had to back track.

This government has no backbone. So many big decisions have been announced then u-turns made.

If they announced WTO there would be such an outcry from those it affects they’d have to u-turn.

Meant to add that I genuinely don’t think we’d ever announce no deal because of the GFA.

Our incompetence is most likely to lead to us having to accept whatever terms we are offered by the EU.

*Faith if you find posters being offensive so off putting using the term "fucking twat" is a bit hypocritical?

Or did I get that wrong?*

If I had come onto the thread & just randomly posted that then that would have been hypocritical, yes.
But that's not what happened, so I don't believe I'm in any way hypocritical tbh.

'fucking twat' is actually a mild version of the reaction she'd have got in rl tbh - however there are talk guidelines on here which tempered my response.

ommmward if you mean my posts on education and Erasmus (which I mentioned once), then what I said was:

“Or taking advantage of the Erasmus scheme ... which will no longer be available unless some special deal is done.”

Are you saying that a deal has been done to allow the UK to continue participation in Erasmus+ for post 2020/21?

And as for German and Scottish unis - both something we researched given that DC were looking at Masters courses and both countries were, amongst others, an option.

@Bearbehind

I like your reasoning. It's balanced and rational.

True the weakness of HMG is an important factor but I suppose it could play against this scenario given the stroppy hard right.

@Moussemoose

We should really stop engaging with this Faith person. She strikes me as an empty-headed rabble rouser incapable of expressing cogent views. Waste of time, as are the various exchanges with mummmy.

Like you, I appreciate robust exchanges but they aren't coming from either of these two.

I think it's the hard right that are going to screw it up for everything.

If we offered something more reasonable at this stage, i.e., acknowledging that if we are committed to no border we are actually committed to remaining in the SM in some format, then a deal could be reached more easily.

The hard right's posturing and chest puffing is going to lead to no deal until the 11th hour and then having to accept whatever is on the table then because we simply can't crash out with no deal.

Hopefully the deal we are forced to accept is so awful when it goes before parliament another referendum will be called.

In the face of the factual reality of the crap offer enough people will change sides. Or enough Brexiters will stay at home and not vote.

@Bearbehind

Sounds plausible. Eminently possible.

My scenario is different but amounts to us staying. Change in public sentiment will lead to either 1) HoC stopping this mess through some form of cross party courage (am I delusional?) 2) a second ref that stops this mess (because of lack of HoC courage).

@Moussemoose

Yes, that's my thinking. The deal suck so badly or is so close to what we have that it makes no sense to leave.

We should really stop engaging with this Faith person.

Please do Olivia.

I rather hoped that you would desist yesterday if I ignored you, but sadly it did not work.

Although HoC can technically stop Brexit I don't think they will.

Another referendum is needed for political if not legal reasons.

This potential new referendum needs to be framed carefully, with perhaps a low turnout or small majority forcing a third.

Faith, go to your pub. You'll have a better audience there, luv.

You can complain freely about dem forriners, in'it?

🙄
Yawn.

olivia I don't think a change in public sentiment can ever be measured because the Leave loons will always shout louder.

Also I don't think a second referendum would solve the problem, even it it happened, which I dont believe it will.

As can be seen from posters like soulstew, it's still all emotion and feelings for them. The facts wouldn't change their mind.

We can never be seen to undermine 'the will of the people'.

The reality will be we end up with essentially what we have now with no seat at the table but Leavers will be able to say 'we left'.

On a separate not le I think Adonis is on w Mogg on BBC One now.

@Bearbehind

Will of the People. Declaration of Human Rights.

Article 21.

(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

Why on Earth are they showing Mogg before 10pm when young children could be watching?

That may be the case olivia but it's just a mantra for TM. Politicians do not have the appetite to overrule the original referendum.