The Brexit Arms

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Thought I'd dust off the optics & open the bar for the festive period

If any of the the old crowd are still around, then do pop in for a Christmas catch up & join me in toasting the end of the beginning!

Onward! To Brexit!

🍷 🥃 🍸 🍹 🍾 🥂 🍻 🍺

The question Twofingers asked of Mummy

"Do you think it's [the border between NI and RoI] not an important issue, Mummy?

Surely that is asking for Mummy's opinion and not misquoting or misrepresenting Mummy? Seeking clarification on such a point would avoid misunderstandings or misrepresentation of a poster's viewpoint.

No-one is misquoting or misrepresenting. They are just asking mummy to put forward her opinion on the border issue, as is normal on a discussion board. She can either argue the case that it isn't important, or she can ignore the question, although the latter might give the impression that she hasn't actually given the issue much, or any, thought. It's up to her, isn't it?
You tried arguing semantics last night, Faith. It doesn't wash. We can see through it.

I see I've cross-posted with others. What Faith is doing is actually a standard tactic to derail actual discussion.

Not trying to derail at all actually - just fed up of seeing the standard trope.

She said it was "just one issue that is very important to [ bear ]"

She said it was "just one issue that is very important to [ bear ]"
Well, if we're going to be pedantic, that could be read in two ways:

• It is just one of the issues that Bear finds important, but (given the utter shambles) there may be many other concerning issues
• It is important to Bear but not to other people.

The English language is rather interesting in that respect. What is the 'standard trope' in this respect, Faith?

twofingers: why engage?

Hey Olivia - stop being mean to Faith. No she's not trolling. Far from it. Here we go again.

I suggest we give borders a rest. Lets talk about the appointment of Jacob Rees Mog's - new leadership role. Now he's a man that knows what he's talking about. He would give you answers.

stop being mean
Now, that is a standard trope.
Lets talk about the appointment of Jacob Rees Mog's - new leadership role.
Yes, let's. You start.

Faith do you think the statements by the UK Gov't with respect to the border between NI and RoI and Brexit [need for no border to continue to comply with the international treaty known as the Good Friday Agreement and therefore full alignment with EU regs etc to apply to the whole of the UK - possibly to satisfy their supply and confidence partners in the DUP] are important?

Do these UK Gov't statements give us more information about what the relationship will be with the EU when Brexit is deemed to have taken place?

Jacob Rees-Mogg, has been elected to lead the European Research Group. Congratulations to him I say!

....Best news I've heard in ages. At last some hope ,Teresa May will end up giving our freedom from the EU away if we're not careful.

The European Research Group (ERG) was formed by Eurosceptic Conservatives and campaigns for a hardline approach to Brexit. Why is it in any way surprising/shocking/interesting* that they've elected JRM (well-known Eurosceptic) as their mouthpiece? You'd hardly expect them to elect Ken Clark or Anna Soubry.

*disclaimer - I am not 'misquoting' here. I fully understand that Inkanta didn't actually say anything other than 'best news' (yay!) 'congratulations' (yay!) and 'man who knows what he's talking about' (go Jacob - and, of course, his Nanny!) and the words 'surprising/shocking/ interesting' are my own interpretation of her actual words.

Finally the government has made a good, progressive decision for once. putting one of the most competent MPs in the conservative party (who they just kept on the back benches) with huge public support.

In fact it may be his huge popular that makes Teresa May want to keep him close. Good move.

Oh right twofingers - yes, I am picking up loud and clear your cynical reaction to the new appointment and to the man.

Okay

Of course, JRM is another one of those champions of the common people and not a very, very rich man indeed.
Incidentally, this is the same JRM whose investment firm profits from abortion pills while he seeks to deny even rape victims access to abortions.
What a splendid chap he is! I'm sure he has no personal vested interest whatsoever in leaving the EU!

Forgive me, but Jacob Ree-Mogg's election to lead the ERG is not a Gov't appointment. It is a decision taken by a small number of Eurosceptic MPs that are members of said ERG.

Also not sure how you are measuring JRM's 'huge popular'(ity). He is an MP with a majority in his own constituency. And now has the evidenced support of the members of the ERG to be their leader - the ?fifth leader of that group since the referendum.

I suggest we give borders a rest

Now that is standard trope!

Let's ignore anything difficult and talk about easy things because we like those better

Not one single Leaver on here has attempted to explain how the pledge that there will not be a hard border can be reconciled with either WTO or any agreement that isn't SM/CU.

Where do you think the solution is gong to come from?

I am picking up loud and clear your cynical reaction to the new appointment and to the man
Not a cynical reaction at all. His appointment is entirely unsurprising. I do think he's an utterly ridiculous wanker, though, and am always amazed how so many of the UK population seem to have this hankering to be ruled over by public school buffoons and throwbacks and will excuse any kind of nastiness so long as it's dressed up as eccentricity.

"he seeks to deny even rape victims access to abortions"

Yes, I heard that was his own personal opinion which disappointed me as well. Up to that point I thought he might make a good PM to be honest. He's no chance of that now though.

Anyway, he knows his Brexit stuff and talks Brexit language and seems to have some balls.

"will excuse any kind of nastiness so long as it's dressed up as eccentricity."

Some truth in that.

Oh yes, the ERG which has been using taxpayer’s money to fund their own little political project:

Senior MPs including Liam Fox, Andrea Leadsom and Jacob Rees-Mogg have used their expenses to fund a 'party within a party' inside Westminster – effectively holding the government hostage over its negotiations with the EU.

Taxpayers’ money is being used to fund an influential group of hard-line pro-Brexit Conservative MPs who are increasingly operating as a “party-within-a-party”, openDemocracy can reveal today.

Despite expenses rules stating that MPs cannot claim for research or work “done for, or on behalf of, a political party”, the European Research Group has received over a quarter of a million pounds from MPs who claimed the public cash through their official expenses.

www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/james-cusick-adam-ramsay-crina-boros/revealed-tory-mps-using-taxpayers-cash-to-fund-sec

Sorry ill, just woke up.

To some countries fishing rights are much more important.
Poland is interested in guarantees on Benefit payments and how works rights are protected.
Spain is interested in Tourism and Food production, as it makes up on heck of a lot of their GDP.
Germany is looking at a decreasing car industry.
France needs agreements about migrants.

Each has it's own worries, and somewhere I saw something about making Ireland an independent territory in regards to tariffs. That was mentioned by the WTO people. But to come to some sort of agreement each countries worries have to be considered, it can't just be ok for one country and not work for 26 others.

So what does JRM have to say about the Gov't statements on the NI/RoI border and full alignment? Does he accept this is the Brexit we are agreeing to with the EU as it is his party in Gov't that has set out the UK's need to comply with the Good Friday Agreement as well as addresing the DUP concerns about the whole of the UK being subject to the same EU regs etc once Brexit has deemed to have happened?

If JRM and the ERG do not agree with the UK Gov's stated position will they be able to change it?

"So what does JRM have to say about the Gov't statements on the NI/RoI border and full alignment?"

I don't know. Might find something on his YouTube interviews.