The Brexit Arms

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Thought I'd dust off the optics & open the bar for the festive period

If any of the the old crowd are still around, then do pop in for a Christmas catch up & join me in toasting the end of the beginning!

Onward! To Brexit!

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“he seeks to deny even rape victims access to abortions"

It’s his personal opinion, which I don’t agree with, but that’s all it is and he is entitled to it. It’s a gargantuan jump from personal opinion to applying it countrywide, even if he was PM it wouldn’t get past first base.

I’m more interested in what he can bring to the table brexit wise. I’ll patiently wait and watch with interest.

That will be the same Rees-Mogg that went on TV and blamed a non-existent election for colouring the Irish government’s view on Brexit?

Rees-Mogg thinks the Border could be non existent in real life and there could be a form to declare customs that could be filled in.

And how will Rees-Mogg’s idea of customs forms prevent smuggling? Or will there be a box to tick on the form to declare you’re not a smuggler, in the way that the US landing form had a box to tick to say that you weren’t a terrorist?

Just a form?

How did he propose to deal with VAT, rules of origin, certifications of compliance?

Trust will no longer be there because we will be a third country. We have already stated that (he has as well) we wish for regular Tory divergens. This kills the trust question and renders checks mandatory

Regulatory

Rees-Mogg thinks the Border could be non existent in real life and there could be a form to declare customs that could be filled in

Well that just goes to show how deluded he is then doesn't it.

When will these fuckers realise it's not that simple.

JRM, and others, may well 'think' that this is possible but it is not either under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement or within the WTO rules. So if it is to be implemented it will require a new international treaty to replace the Good Friday Agreement or the WTO (all member countries) to agree to an EU UK arrangement. Then there will need to be the infrastructure in place - again planning and installation time and cost. Finally a Customs border between NI and RoI does not have the support of the Gov's supply and confidence partners the DUP - because it would risk a border between GB and NI.
So many challenges.

@JWIM

it is not either under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement or within the WTO rules

Very good point. I regularly forget the WTO requires a border between third countries.

Good Point Olivia, so if we do end up with no deal there Has to be a border.

And if there is no deal, than doesn't that mean the matter of Ireland once more isn't sorted as the no border agreement becomes null and void due to a prior stand rule that needs to be enforced.

Sorry--- a prior standing rule that needs to be enforced

So on we go Mummy with an ever extending 'transition/implementation' period. We continue to abide by the EU regs, to pay and have no say. If we decide to withdraw - and it is our decision not the EU's then we breach the international treaty that is known as the Good Friday Agreement. Setting to one side the significance in having reached that agreement and all that went before it both on the island of Ireland (north and south of the border) and on the GB mainland, what consequence might there be for the UK? We will have breached a treaty to which we are one of the signatories and then be seeking to sign new treaties for trade with other individual countries around the world - would we be considered a reliable treaty partner?

time4: It’s his personal opinion, which I don’t agree with, but that’s all it is and he is entitled to it. It’s a gargantuan jump from personal opinion to applying it countrywide, even if he was PM it wouldn’t get past first base
My point was not that he disagrees with abortion (he is entitled to his opinion), but that he takes this stance while his investment company profits from abortion pills. In other words, he is a hypocrite of the highest order.

Agreements get changed all the time, is it unfair to think that the GFA in 100 years may be very outdated.

If something is happening that was never considered should that not then be cause to talk, you can't just hold up an agreement and say till the end of time you have to abide by this. After all didn't women get the vote, that was outlawed once. Marriage between same sex couples. You can't say NEVER,

mummmy your view point is incredibly naive and unbelievable simplistic.

Noone is saying the GFA will be relevant in 100 years time but it is very relevant now and cannot just be ignored.

You keep insisting we can just have a border if we need to and blame the EU for giving us no other option.

That cannot happen.

It is one thing to renegotiate an agreement with the parties as a result of an agreed change in the situation, quite another to unilaterally withdraw.

Again, so many challenges.

Bear it's not it can't happen , it's you can't conceive of any way you can see it happening.

That is two totally different things.

Therefore, it can be argued that if Britain’s membership of the EU was not treated neutrally when creating the devolution settlement for Northern Ireland, it is justified to interpret the Northern Ireland Act of 1998 in a wide and purposive approach.

Ok mummmy, what possible way do you think it can happen, in the next 12 months plus any transition period?

Don't roll out the old, 'I'mjust a Mum, I don't know'

Given you're so convinced it's possible you must have a basis for those thoughts.

And not the 'honesty border' one either.

If Ireland want it to work, then don't they have to find a way forward, and not just sit in the middle of a room shouting, NO I won't do it you can't make me.

Ireland is one part of the UK but there is another bigger Island next door and we have rights in all this as well, you can't just tell us we have to do something because you say so, which right not you seem to be doing.

If the worse comes to pass how do you see it moving forward, as I can and will say I am just a mum and I don't know. This is not a cop out, but a statement of fact...

Mummy can you conceive of the UK unilaterally breaching an international agreement that the UK instigated - the Good Friday Agreement?

Currently the UK Gov't has stated that they will adhere to the terms of the Good Friday Agreement so there will be no border between NI and RoI. They have also confirmed that there will be alignment for the whole of the UK (to satisfy the DUP). Those two statements would indicate that currently, within the negotiations for Brexit, that the UK Gov't does not plan to breach the Good Friday Agreement.

The Gov't is continuing the negotiations with the EU for Brexit on the basis of these two points, along with Citizens rights and our confirmation that the UK will meet the financial obligations of our EU membership.

Unless you understand the settled points that led to the move to start talks on the future trading relationship to be different.

mummmy you are spectacularly missing the whole point of the GFA.

It is to maintain peace- If we breach it we are shitting on our own doorstep which is why it will not happen.

How do I see it moving forward?

I think we are going to end up paying for SM access and therefore abiding by EU rules indefinitely because it's the only workable solution.

What would you think if that did turn out to be the case?

But Ireland didn’t want to leave the EU. Why should they want to make something work when they never wanted it in the first place?
DH is Northern Irish. I wish my understanding of Irish history/politics was better but I remember the first time I went to visit his family and they still had armed soldiers on the border.
His mum lives in Northern Ireland, about 10 miles from the border. DH has siblings clustered on either side so, when we visit, we constantly drive across the border and you wouldn’t even notice.
It took decades and a huge amount of work to bring peace to Northern Ireland.
You cannot just ignore the issue by shrugging your shoulders and saying ‘I dunno’.
DH has a friend whose wife was pregnant with twins who was killed in the Omagh bombing.
This is people’s actual lives you’re just giving a bored shrug to.

I'd hope we wouldn't settle for a deal that ties us for ever to the EU.

Also it's the very fact that it has taken us this long to decide agree and move on that still makes me think your view of this being the only solution you can see,is very short sighted, the fact this deal has to be bought before 27 countries, means that only 20 have to say yes, that's fine by us, and one of the ones who loses out on this vote could be Ireland.
The UK could in good faith put forward a deal that does satisfy the point BUT....
Not only the Fishing, but the finance could derail this, an the EU have already said there could still be a no deal, but this isn't a possibility you will even consider.
If this happened then how is it the UK's fault if the SM option is no longer an option as we have run out of time to do a deal?

MsHooliesCardigan Ireland is in the EU now and yes as a whole voted not to leave.
BUT part of Ireland is also English.
So are you saying Ireland wil have to leave the UK to stay in the EU.
As the UK vote as a country was to leave.

Let's just cancel this pathetic Brexit clusterf... before the damage becomes irreparable. Even Fromage himself supports a second referendum now.